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Thread: K4M into an R10

  1. #76
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Is anyone familiar with the 1.4 R18?

    This starter has come up
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CLEARANC...4383.l4275.c10

    It mentions 847, which is what my current flywheel is from but looks like the solenoid is in a different spot, may not be an issue. There is no mention of the nose length which is the important number missing.

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  2. #77
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Does the 8/10 have a grommet at the back for a starter crank?

    Suppose cranking a high comp modern engine by hand would probably suck.

    You are just trying to find a "reno-esk" starter motor with an appropriate shaft to engage the flywheel at the moment? I mean mounting is/isn't an issue it's just the shaft length now?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

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  3. #78
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Yes, you can crank R8/10’s by hand, but it relies on having a drive dog bolt on the crank pulley that Christian is unlikely to use on his.
    The R12 has a std hex head bolt on the pulley hence I can only crank one of my cars - not that I’d like to try to crank start the engine out of my old R10.
    KB


  4. #79
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    I've welded up the hole on the body for the hand crank, so no hand cranking for me.

    May also be close to impossible to hand crack a modern engine.

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  5. #80
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    ..wasn't really suggesting one hand cranks a modern 16v donk But it would have added just that touch of originality.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #81
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    Although I certainly don't try to hand crank start any of my Renault collection, I use the hole in the body to give easy access to the crank when I need to line up TDC.

  7. #82
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.lees View Post
    Is anyone familiar with the 1.4 R18?

    This starter has come up
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CLEARANC...4383.l4275.c10

    It mentions 847, which is what my current flywheel is from but looks like the solenoid is in a different spot, may not be an issue. There is no mention of the nose length which is the important number missing.
    I would say that the R18 1.4 (1397cc) would be much the same as a Renault Virage (late R12) which sold here in the late 70's
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    1973 Alpine A110

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  8. #83
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    Took a gamble as it was only $100 including freight.

    Had to shave one corner of the flange. It also looks like the main housing has been machined on one side for clearance, the wrong side bit this probably means I can shave it down a little as I think it's still interfering with the block but not by much.

    The nose is slightly shorter but my quick measurements say it'll still engage.

    K4M into an R10-1519629374133.jpg

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  9. #84
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    I picked up a complete EL column today with wheel, shrouds etc.
    The rag joint coupler I had bought from Dapto was too big.

    Do you recall if the donor vehicle for yours looked like this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K4M into an R10-f7a86afb-1520-43e6-a9aa-7c894244a824.jpeg  
    KB


  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    I picked up a complete EL column today with wheel, shrouds etc.
    The rag joint coupler I had bought from Dapto was too big.

    Do you recall if the donor vehicle for yours looked like this?
    Which part is the wrong size, the spline or the flange?

    I can't recall exactly what mine came from as I ended up with so many of them looking for one that fitted. Is it possible to drill the one you have to fit the Renault rag joint? I had also considered making a plate to adapt between different pitches but there isn't much space to fit it in.

    All I remember is it came from a ute and it was the end that connected to a joint at the steering box.

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  11. #86
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Yeah, too big on the splines. The Dapto one sounds like it came from the same location between the column and steering box. I think it was a D21. The flange spacing is perfect, but the spline diameter too big. Up until today, I didn’t have the bottom part of the falcon shaft to compare it to.
    The blue Ute pictured is at picknpayless Blacktown and an early D22, so I’ll go down there and take a look.
    KB


  12. #87
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.lees View Post
    Took a gamble as it was only $100 including freight.

    Had to shave one corner of the flange. It also looks like the main housing has been machined on one side for clearance, the wrong side bit this probably means I can shave it down a little as I think it's still interfering with the block but not by much.

    The nose is slightly shorter but my quick measurements say it'll still engage.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1519629374133.jpg 
Views:	139 
Size:	91.1 KB 
ID:	103928

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    Hi Christian

    At this stage in proceedings I would be hooking up a battery and testing out the starter motor to make sure it all engages nicely. You could possibly check engagement with some bearing blue or using a permanent marker on the pinion.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
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    1973 Alpine A110

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  13. #88
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Yes this is getting exciting!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Christian

    At this stage in proceedings I would be hooking up a battery and testing out the starter motor to make sure it all engages nicely. You could possibly check engagement with some bearing blue or using a permanent marker on the pinion.
    That is my plan but I'll need to take the head off as there is no timing belt on the motor.

    That bell housing has a chunk of the oil seal suround missing so I'm willing to cut the starter cover to I can see how much engagement I have.

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  15. #90
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    Love how everybody gets involved with heaps of knowledge when a fellow Frogger has a problem.
    This must be one of the best sites on the net!
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  16. #91
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    I decided to take the cam shafts out so I could test the starter engagement, it's got to come apart anyway.

    Good news, the starter engages. It is engaging 9mm of the starter pinion, there is a leader on the teeth so it's not getting complete depth on the whole tooth of the ring gear.

    I could machine a mm or two of the starters mount face but not sure it's worth it. There is only 3 mm of clearance in the idle position so I think I'll be leaving it alone. It's close as it is.

    This opens up the possibility of putting a timing gear on the back of the flywheel. There is about 10mm of clearance so I can get the gear cut from 6mm plate and bolt or weld it to the flywheel, then get it rebalanced.

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  17. #92
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    Couldn't help myself. They are larger then I wanted but the price was right, paid $70 including shipping. They are from a 2006 GSXR 600 so they are 40mm.

    I've already removed the secondary butterflies as I won't need them. I won't use the up stream injectors either so I'll plug those holes when the time comes.

    It may not add much performance but it will sound awesome.

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  18. #93
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Price is right!

    Proven fun times you are going to have.

    What sort of length inlet runner do you think you will end up with?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    Price is right!

    Proven fun times you are going to have.

    What sort of length inlet runner do you think you will end up with?
    No idea what length yet. I may make the manifold neck in a little in the middle to compensate for the larger throttle plates. There are lots of factors.

    With ITBs the length of the runner is from the mouth of the velocity stack to the valve, position of the throttle along the runner doesn't make much difference. It will make a difference for the injectors though, not sure how much.

    I'll make it so I can put the upstream injectors back in just in case one day I'm feeling crazy. Not sure I'll ever get time for that though.

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  20. #95
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Ah interesting the position of the throttle plate doesn't make to much of a difference. I assumed that's where all measuments started.

    $70 bucks. Man. Good stuff.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.lees View Post
    Couldn't help myself. They are larger then I wanted but the price was right, paid $70 including shipping. They are from a 2006 GSXR 600 so they are 40mm.

    I've already removed the secondary butterflies as I won't need them. I won't use the up stream injectors either so I'll plug those holes when the time comes.

    It may not add much performance but it will sound awesome.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    I think youd be surprised what difference they make. In the uk bike throttle bodies are a huge thing, with some awesome results. I had a set of R1 bodies on a Clio 172 motor running on standard management and it was a whole different car. It had a map tweek and saw a jump from factory stated 172 bhp to proven and safe 200. If nothing else Im 100% with you on the noise, Id have them for that alone even if I lost power....


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