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Thread: Electronic ignition

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Default Electronic ignition

    Good afternoon all
    Just wondering if many people have converted their old contact points ignition system to an electronic solid state system?
    Contemplating this for the R17TS given that condensers, points etc are getting hard to come by these days.

    Just wondering if it is worth doing? Is it hard to do?
    I have been looking at the Ignitor set and it seems reasonably easy.

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    Any advice either way would be great.
    Regards
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
    1974 Renault 17TS (1317) - Silver

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    DejaVu,
    Go to Technical and Performance Thread.
    There's a swag of information on the subject.
    deja vu 25 likes this.

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    Hi,
    Done mine about 3 years ago. Easy job. No problems since.

    Henry
    deja vu 25 likes this.
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  4. #4
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    Ignition only or the whole hog (EFI as well), given you have a TS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deja vu 25 View Post
    Good afternoon all
    Just wondering if many people have converted their old contact points ignition system to an electronic solid state system?
    Contemplating this for the R17TS given that condensers, points etc are getting hard to come by these days.

    Just wondering if it is worth doing? Is it hard to do?
    I have been looking at the Ignitor set and it seems reasonably easy.

    Any advice either way would be great.
    Regards
    When I look at ebay and some of the French suppliers on line, I don't think there is any issue with availability of points and condensers. However there are better ways of doing the distributor function: there are "Hot Spark" and similar kits that replace the points and capacitor system in your distributor with a rotating magnet and a "Hall Effect" system but still uses the mechanical centrifugal and vacuum advance systems, which wear and there are "123" distributors and others that replace the entire distributor with a fully electronic system. I can endorse both!

    As Wildebeeste commented, there are several threads on this subject. You can google "123 distributors", Lumentition, and "Hot Spark" for information too. I hope never to touch points again!!
    deja vu 25 likes this.
    JohnW

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    This is what I have purchased and will be doing over the next little while for the Fuego:



    Will run 2D and 3D.

    Whilst not able to run EFI am happy to start with the ability to programme advance curves to suit the cam and compression ratio the J6R currently has.

    Will do a tech article in the future.
    deja vu 25 likes this.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    Ignition only or the whole hog (EFI as well), given you have a TS?
    Was just thinking the ignition as the efi is in pretty good order and has reasonably new injectors.
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
    1974 Renault 17TS (1317) - Silver

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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    When I look at ebay and some of the French suppliers on line, I don't think there is any issue with availability of points and condensers. However there are better ways of doing the distributor function: there are "Hot Spark" and similar kits that replace the points and capacitor system in your distributor with a rotating magnet and a "Hall Effect" system but still uses the mechanical centrifugal and vacuum advance systems, which wear and there are "123" distributors and others that replace the entire distributor with a fully electronic system. I can endorse both!

    As Wildebeeste commented, there are several threads on this subject. You can google "123 distributors", Lumentition, and "Hot Spark" for information too. I hope never to touch points again!!
    Thank you for the info John.
    I will check out the sites. I am getting excited now.
    Bought a DC100 condenser from Repco for my Bosch dizzy and found it was incorrect as my dizzy has an odd condenser set up so it will be very nice not to worry about points and condensers!!
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
    1974 Renault 17TS (1317) - Silver

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    http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa31deb2a.jpg

    I fitted this to my R17TS and it has been fine.
    JohnW likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa31deb2a.jpg

    I fitted this to my R17TS and it has been fine.
    That looks perfect. Did you use the xr700 or xr3000?
    Do you remember which installation kit you used?
    Oddly my R17TS doesn't seem to have the ballast resistor fitted.

    I see it came from Autobarn?
    Regards
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
    1974 Renault 17TS (1317) - Silver

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    This is what I have purchased and will be doing over the next little while for the Fuego:



    Will run 2D and 3D.

    Whilst not able to run EFI am happy to start with the ability to programme advance curves to suit the cam and compression ratio the J6R currently has.

    Will do a tech article in the future.
    Looks good. What fuelling system are you using, carb or injector??

    To digress for a second with some trivia that might help you......... For parts pillaging, the r21 auto has two independent TPS devices stacked on top of each other, one which has two switches to define three zones, throttle-closed/open/wide open and the other a variable resistance sensor which I think feeds info to the auto transmission ecu.
    That little one is the one you want if you don't already have a TPS sorted.

    Jo

    Jo

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    I have a TS and a Gordini and neither had a ballast resistor fitted. The TS has 2 X 2 X45mm Webers. It is jetted as for the R12 Gordini. Except the R12 G had two different carbs one had an extra adjustable air jet. I had a thread on here about the progression holes. If I floor it (which I do often) I still get a puff of black smoke. I think the accelerator pump jetting set up may still be wrong, even though it is the same as R12G in hole size. But there is a by pass valve as well and perhaps that is different as I have not found any reference to it for the R12G. Hmmm 700 or 3000? Not sure but I thought one had been discontinued. I'll see if I have the documentation. It took 2 hours to read and decipher the documentation and about an hour or so to fit as it is hidden under the carbs it took a bit longer (took carbs off). Tuning was easy. I've probably done 10,000 k's since fitting it and not once given it even a thought, where as the points were a constant niggle.
    deja vu 25 likes this.

  13. #13
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    Jo,

    Leaving the carb on as you saw it last.
    I have this thing about trying to keep it as close to original as possible (externally).

    Once this is sorted the 21 system (sitting on the shelf) goes on.
    Will have a look for the TPS you described on the inlet.
    The system was picked up from a converted Fuego years ago.
    I don't know its history, what is the quick way to tell if it is auto/man EFI?
    Have a MAP sensor on the way, initially to do the load sensing.
    If that doesn't do the job, will go TPS.

  14. #14
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    Mine is a 3000.

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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Excellent. Thanks sunroof
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
    1974 Renault 17TS (1317) - Silver

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    Jo,

    Leaving the carb on as you saw it last.
    I have this thing about trying to keep it as close to original as possible (externally).

    Once this is sorted the 21 system (sitting on the shelf) goes on.
    You must like working on ignitions.

    One thing I will say about both fuego and r21 igniton (internal and ECU controlled respectively)....It is robust as they come, and no gain whatsoever has come form any alterations on any of my cars.
    I'm a little baffled why you'd just replace one perfectly good system with another and then another.

    You know you could wire in the renix system and end up with the same drivability as with the nodiz (without the tuning hassle), and morph the car from old to new as you install the various components. Renix is too stupid to know what is connected and what is not.
    The difference is it just means you are building finished product from day one.

    Jo

  17. #17
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    Jo,

    Most of the cars from that era ran retarded ignition curves to minimise HC/emissions output.
    Byproducts also include poor economy and less power.
    Running higher compression gives me the torque I am after.
    Have access to PULP to allow running of higher CR.
    Need to advance timing to gain benefits.
    Current RENIX timing/ignition system won't allow advance.

    Thus will start with ignition timing/cam timing and worry about EFI (fuel only) next.

    Will see if I am/have wasted my time & $$$$.

    Still appreciate your input!!!!

  18. #18
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    I have a 123 distributor on my Citroen Big 6.

    Strongly recommended.

    My MGA has a Bosch distributor.

    I'll do ANYTHING to get away from The Prince of Darkness.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

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    Quote Originally Posted by geodon View Post
    I have a 123 distributor on my Citroen Big 6. Strongly recommended.

    My MGA has a Bosch distributor. I'll do ANYTHING to get away from The Prince of Darkness.
    123 say they supply a distributor for 4-cylinder BMC MGs if I read their site correctly: MG & Mini so you can get away from points too if you wish.
    JohnW

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    Thanks John. I'll make a note of that.

    The Citroen needed a new distributor cap- it was arcing all over the place- & no replacement was available.

    The Bosch unit, however, is fully serviceable & reliable.
    "Pauses for audience applause......not a sausage!"....Bluebottle

    1949 Citroen Big 6
    1955 MGA1500
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    Quote Originally Posted by deja vu 25 View Post
    Good afternoon all
    Just wondering if many people have converted their old contact points ignition system to an electronic solid state system?
    Contemplating this for the R17TS given that condensers, points etc are getting hard to come by these days.

    Just wondering if it is worth doing? Is it hard to do?
    I have been looking at the Ignitor set and it seems reasonably easy.

    Any advice either way would be great.
    Regards
    Hi all. My Son has given me an Electronic Ignition System for the R8 (Christmas present) {GAMATRONICS 12Volt - Negative Earth] Just wondering iif these units give any greater boost to the spark plugs, eg Can I open up the gap for a bigger/better spark ?? Phil
    deja vu 25 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    Hi all. My Son has given me an Electronic Ignition System for the R8 (Christmas present) {GAMATRONICS 12Volt - Negative Earth] Just wondering iif these units give any greater boost to the spark plugs, eg Can I open up the gap for a bigger/better spark ?? Phil
    I've a 6V Gammatronix on the 4CV (as have a couple of others). Seem to work - transistor system instead of capacitor - still using the points and all the mechanical joy from the distributor. They claim a fatter spark but I haven't bothered to change anything.
    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965
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    OK,thanks John. Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    I don't know its history, what is the quick way to tell if it is auto/man EFI?
    I'm not sure if there is any difference in the ECU. I suspect the difference is the extra auto transmition ecu and this little sensor.
    In the photo you can see the larger of the two units, the two pole switch TPS and attatched to that is the smaller variable resistance pot (with cut wires) that would wire into the auto tranny ECU.
    I would assume the manual version does not have this smaller sender.
    Electronic ignition-tps.jpg

    Jo

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    Thanks Jo, will keep info for future reference.

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