Renault R1135 R8 G rear spring spacers
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Default Renault R1135 R8 G rear spring spacers

    My father in law's R8G is sitting too low in the rear for him, particularly looking at taking it to Forbes next year with luggage on the rear seat. The springs are original and have the 10mm aluminum spacers fitted. I was wondering if there were any thicker spacers available originally, and if a pair can be procured.

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    I could make some from aluminium billet, but it would be some effort, or perhaps a pair of R10 rear springs could be fitted without the spacers,and give an acceptable result, given the excellent spring specs supplied by Simon some time ago.
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    Loooooong ago, I had a Fiat 1100TV Spider that had the reverse problem- its tail was too high.

    I fixed it by getting the springs re-set- I think by heating & bending.

    Granted they were leaf springs but it may be worth a call to a spring place ( are Hendersons still around??) to see if your coils can be stretched.
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    Alan think I kept a box of springs. I'll check up on what I have got later today.

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    No Alan I can't find the box. I think they went with all the rest of my R8/10 stuff. Probably to the dump. I have kept one set of springs which you are welcome to. I also got the thick spacers from Joe's but I would not have dumped them. I may have given then to either Bruce or Peter Kent. If I kept them then I couldn't see them any where this morning. I'll look a bit more tomorrow.

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    Alan, I think I have rear R10 springs of various lengths as well if you need them.

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    Although it would be a pain to do on a completed car, could you put a spacer between the cross member and the body on the rear?

    When I pulled the red car apart, it had a rubber block (probably about a cm thick) on each side; where the 4 bolts go through the cross member.

    The other alternative would be to get Kings Springs to make a set to your requested height specification. But I think they now quote a fairly high tolerance +/- 10mm from memory.

    KB
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Although it would be a pain to do on a completed car, could you put a spacer between the cross member and the body on the rear?
    That wouldn't really solve the problem in a way I think Alan wants. The raised body over the cross member would only really marginally alter the ground clearance and exit angles, and be of a benefit for a gravel rally car.

    Also, with the 8G, there isn't a great deal of clearance between the axle tube and bump stop, even less with a load in the back. I have seen 20mm spacers, and thought they were at Mecaparts, but a quick look revealed nothing in their current catalogue (apart from a range of new springs). I'm guessing a stock R8/10 spring will be a decent compromise, as the AUS spec "poor roads" spring is effectively the same as an 8G spring with extra coils.

    Just another thought with the longer springs installed, check the length of the axle straps, just to make sure they are of sufficient length not to impede the axle too much.
    Last edited by Simon; 17th December 2014 at 02:44 PM.
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I had suggested to my father in law after seeing the R10 rear spring specs put up by Simon that just fitting the R10 springs with no spacers would probably accomplish the goal.

    Yes Simon is right, he is worried by the lack of clearance to the bump stop in standard form,(although it has been cut down a little) given the roads to Forbes will be those less seldom crossed as they usually travel with other QLD 4CV owners and keep off the main roads to avoid holding people up on hills and only travelling at 90 Kph.

    He thinks he has a pair of R10 rear springs, but will have to measure them up as they came out of a rally car and may have been made up to give more ground clearance than he wants. I will talk to him tomorrow and if they are not suitable, we will take Graham up on his kind offer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    I had suggested to my father in law after seeing the R10 rear spring specs put up by Simon that just fitting the R10 springs with no spacers would probably accomplish the goal.

    Yes Simon is right, he is worried by the lack of clearance to the bump stop in standard form,(although it has been cut down a little) given the roads to Forbes will be those less seldom crossed as they usually travel with other QLD 4CV owners and keep off the main roads to avoid holding people up on hills and only travelling at 90 Kph.

    He thinks he has a pair of R10 rear springs, but will have to measure them up as they came out of a rally car and may have been made up to give more ground clearance than he wants. I will talk to him tomorrow and if they are not suitable, we will take Graham up on his kind offer.
    The early R8s like mine didn't have the later spec springs and ours sat a bit low, and much too low when loaded. Back in about 1975 I fitted R10 springs and it made a huge difference. Not directly relevant perhaps to the G, but not having the bump stops being contacted a lot made a big difference to noise levels.

    So sorry we'll have to miss that 2015 Muster. Ah well, 2017...
    Last edited by JohnW; 18th December 2014 at 11:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    he is worried by the lack of clearance to the bump stop in standard form,(although it has been cut down a little) given the roads to Forbes will be those less seldom crossed as they usually travel with other QLD 4CV owners and keep off the main roads to avoid holding people up on hills and only travelling at 90 Kph.
    So the standard (shorter) 8G bump stops have been cut? It must be very low with a lot of negative camber (and consequent tyre wear). Just wondering, as it has the standard 10mm spacers, if the stock springs have been cut or are just excessively sagged?

    My car with 112K miles still has a reasonable ride height with the original springs and 10mm spacer. It's last big trip to Tasvegas didn't cause too many clearance problems on C-roads, although it was only with one person with the luggage up front.
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    I bought some front ones for the 4CVG from this guy. He has rear ones as well but doesn't specify thickness.

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    cheers! Peter

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    Jim found he had a set of standard R10 rear springs, and will fit them without the spacers. He is a little worried it will be too high, but we will see.

    Simon, from what he had said I think he has only cut about 5mm off the original bump stop, and with standard, possibly sagged, maybe cut springs, the rear hits the bump stops regularly, without load, particularly at the track. This R8G only saw about 12 years of use before coming off the road for the next 30 years or so, but I guess the springs could have sagged.

    Jim is currently playing with making up a nicer throwout bearing arrangement with a real bearing for the R8G instead of the bronze or carbon type. He has had two failures of the original type, and so the motor is out and is unable to try the springs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    Simon, from what he had said I think he has only cut about 5mm off the original bump stop, and with standard, possibly sagged, maybe cut springs, the rear hits the bump stops regularly, without load, particularly at the track. This R8G only saw about 12 years of use before coming off the road for the next 30 years or so, but I guess the springs could have sagged.

    Jim is currently playing with making up a nicer throwout bearing arrangement with a real bearing for the R8G instead of the bronze or carbon type. He has had two failures of the original type, and so the motor is out and is unable to try the springs.
    Just found a couple of pics of the two cars, they both look about the same ride height and rear camber. What shock absorbers are in the car? I've never had bottoming on the circuit with red Koni's on the initial setting.





    As for the clutch thrust bearing, I've got a "normal" bearing instead of the early type on my car, if you need something to get the car on the road quickly, I've got a new spare if required. The bearing for mine was supplied by the place in Adelaide who rebuilt the pressure plate before the proper 8G type was available from Mecaparts. The pressure plate has the triangular thrust pad over the diaphragm. The other thing to watch is wear on the aluminium bellhousing from the thrust bearing lever, make sure the wear isn't too excessive, and put just enough, but not too much, grease between the lever and where it bears on the belhousing to minimise wear.
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    Hi Alan and Jim,

    I've had one of those needle roller thrusts on the R8 for about 12 years now. Going well. They are available from the usual suppliers, I think sometimes at least. I think I got mine from Adelaide Brake and Clutch though! I too have a spare one "just in case" and, as Simon says, the pressure plate has the triangular thrust pad, I think unlike the later R10 type pressure plate.

    Simon, have you ever needed to build up that wear area on the alloy differential end plate?

    A few "I thinks" there - it's been a while....
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    Jim found he had a set of standard R10 rear springs, and will fit them without the spacers. He is a little worried it will be too high, but we will see.

    Simon, from what he had said I think he has only cut about 5mm off the original bump stop, and with standard, possibly sagged, maybe cut springs, the rear hits the bump stops regularly, without load, particularly at the track. This R8G only saw about 12 years of use before coming off the road for the next 30 years or so, but I guess the springs could have sagged.

    Jim is currently playing with making up a nicer throwout bearing arrangement with a real bearing for the R8G instead of the bronze or carbon type. He has had two failures of the original type, and so the motor is out and is unable to try the springs.
    Do you think the previous owner messed with the springs? I agree with Simon regarding the cars sitting similarly, but maybe Jim's has softer springs?
    JohnW

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    Not a solution if ground clearance is an issue but, if bottoming out is the concern, then why not a transverse leaf camber compensator? Given that it functions as a load bearing spring, you'll not place such a high demand on the mains & there'll be a handling benefit as well.

    cheers! Peter

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Jims R8G has what we believe are the original rear springs, with new correct Koni shocks. He just thinks it is too low for the Forbes trip, given the very secondary roads likely to be used.

    Simon, it does look like your car and his are very similar in height.

    With the clutch, this is the second "failure" as such. The first was that the solid bronze replacement throwout "bearing made a terrible racket, so a carbon on was fitted. The newly fitted pressure plate then had the triangular thrust face straps break causing a drama.

    So now a replacement has been made up using a R10 (I think) bell housing with the support tube in the centre, with a modified R10 throwout bearing base, supporting an aluminium boss that has a Subaru throwout bearing pressed onto it. This is to get the right height and also diameter to operate the original R8G pressure plate, but without the thrust face. The new bearing will push directly on the diaphragm fingers, like most cars do.
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    Sounds like a very neat approach Alan. Any photos?

    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    Jims R8G has what we believe are the original rear springs, with new correct Koni shocks. He just thinks it is too low for the Forbes trip, given the very secondary roads likely to be used.

    Simon, it does look like your car and his are very similar in height.

    With the clutch, this is the second "failure" as such. The first was that the solid bronze replacement throwout "bearing made a terrible racket, so a carbon on was fitted. The newly fitted pressure plate then had the triangular thrust face straps break causing a drama.

    So now a replacement has been made up using a R10 (I think) bell housing with the support tube in the centre, with a modified R10 throwout bearing base, supporting an aluminium boss that has a Subaru throwout bearing pressed onto it. This is to get the right height and also diameter to operate the original R8G pressure plate, but without the thrust face. The new bearing will push directly on the diaphragm fingers, like most cars do.
    JohnW

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    Do the later R10 rear springs have a higher rating than the R8 rear springs? I ask because I have found that the negative camber on the rear of my A110 seems excessive. Looks OK after jacking up and lowering the car but then gets lower after a drive. I guess the addition of extra weight does not help like a R8G motor with a heavier alloy sump, a 5 speed box in lieu of the 4 speed and wider Gotti wheels. A friend has an R10 wreck and I can probably get the R10 springs off that and see how they go. The A110 has new Koni shocks all round but still the same springs when it had the 1108 motor, 4 speed box and standard Alpine wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    Do the later R10 rear springs have a higher rating than the R8 rear springs? I ask because I have found that the negative camber on the rear of my A110 seems excessive.
    I thought that the "excessive" negative camber look of the A110 was part of the normal stance? The Aussie "poor roads" spec R10 has the same wire thickness spring as the R8G, just with a couple or so extra coils. It's probably worth a try with the R10 springs to see if you get the look thay you want, as they are cheaper than the 10mm spacers at Racing Car Diffusion found by Peter above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    So now a replacement has been made up using a R10 (I think) bell housing with the support tube in the centre, with a modified R10 throwout bearing base, supporting an aluminium boss that has a Subaru throwout bearing pressed onto it. This is to get the right height and also diameter to operate the original R8G pressure plate, but without the thrust face. The new bearing will push directly on the diaphragm fingers, like most cars do.
    Sounds like a good solution. I looked at finding a late 10 bellhousing when I initially pulled my car apart, and found the 8G pressure plate was not available, figuring the later guided thrust could be used with a later Virage type pressure plate. However the locating pegs on the flywheel then became the hassle. I took the problem to Adelaide Brake and Clutch who said they could rebuild the original 8G pressure plate, 16 years and 20K miles later it is still working. And hopefully it keeps working over at least the next few days!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I thought that the "excessive" negative camber look of the A110 was part of the normal stance? The Aussie "poor roads" spec R10 has the same wire thickness spring as the R8G, just with a couple or so extra coils. It's probably worth a try with the R10 springs to see if you get the look thay you want, as they are cheaper than the 10mm spacers at Racing Car Diffusion found by Peter above.
    Agreed. And with swing axles, the car will sit lower after you get out after a drive than if you jack it up and lower it, as the tyres have to physically slide sideways to assume the correct position after lowering. So the sliding resistance will leave the car sitting a bit higher than after the drive.
    JohnW

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    You're right on John W. The negative camber reappears after just moving the car a metre or so in my garage. I have plenty of photos of A110s and none seem to have the same negative camber as mine, not even John Hardy's which he races. So will try, as Simon suggests, fitting R10 springs and then see how it looks. I like the aggressive stance but am concerned about tyre wear on the inside. Here's a photo of how it looks at the moment.

    Renault R1135  R8 G rear spring spacers-p1030656.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    You're right on John W. The negative camber reappears after just moving the car a metre or so in my garage. I have plenty of photos of A110s and none seem to have the same negative camber as mine, not even John Hardy's which he races. So will try, as Simon suggests, fitting R10 springs and then see how it looks. I like the aggressive stance but am concerned about tyre wear on the inside. Here's a photo of how it looks at the moment.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Others may have more experience, but from the odd Alpine I've seen, that camber looks OK. Yes, of course tyre wear is an issue, always is with swing axles when you think about how the suspension moves in and out.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzamac View Post
    I like the aggressive stance but am concerned about tyre wear on the inside. Here's a photo of how it looks at the moment.
    That will only be a problem if you drive it. Doesn't seem to be an issue yet?
    KB
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