R10 Wheel bearings??
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    Default R10 Wheel bearings??

    Hi Guys,
    At a recent w.o.f. (warrant of fitness) inspection, I was told that my left rear wheel bearing was noisy, and should be replaced before the next 6 monthly w.o.f. inspection.

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    As I was given a box of spare parts with the car, I rummaged through this and came across a pair of new
    bearings with the number: 440536 (SKF made in France) . The dimensions are: 25id, 68od and 19mm thick.
    However, the R10 bearings advertised on E-bay have a completely different number, raising some doubt!
    Can some knowledgeable person please confirm if I have the correct bearings? (before I start the job)

    Also from a distant memory (the 60's), I suspect there may have been oil seals behind the bearings, is this so?

    Cheers, Henry
    When I find my feet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll know where I stand!

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Henry, I can't help with the sizes until I get back home after work but there is not an oil seal behind the bearings. The bearings are pre-packed sealed units or open when you have a grease nipple on the collar. The oil seal is at the U-joint in the gearbox and inside the tube it should be dry.
    Frans.
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    On the French car sites (mecaparts et al) the sizes you quote match one of the rear bearings but my French is not good enough to say absolutely that these are the only bearings or sizes you need.
    KB


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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, There is a seal at the bearing end, it is located in the bearing cap that holds all to the axle tube, and runs on the shoulder on the inside of the drive hub. I would give you a picture, but have none at hand. Have just assembled the hubs and drive shafts on the Gordini, hence I am experienced lately.

    Have a good day,
    Ray
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    PS - if you want to go searching, you're looking for roulement - arriere. bearing, rear (avant is front) in the transmission section usually.
    KB


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    COL
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    Just dragged out my Alpine A110 P.R. 992 Catalogue De Pieces (Parts Book) and found the following.

    The Alpine A110 has the same rear end ar the R10

    Seal size: 38 x 52 x 8

    Bearing: Single ball 25 x 68 x 19

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by COL; 19th November 2014 at 03:22 PM.
    Regards Col

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Said seal for general perusal..

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 Wheel bearings??-seal.jpg  

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Just dragged out my Alpine A110 P.R. 992 Catalogue De Pieces (Parts Book) and found the following.

    The Alpine A110 has the same rear end ar the R10

    Seal size: 38 x 52 x 8

    Bearing: Single ball 25 x 68 x 19

    Hope this helps.
    Looks like you have the right bearing there Rube. It's a tad fiddly to get the bits in and out with calliper brackets and so forth but straightforward if you are patient. I've had my car for 41 years and I've only done the job once, so you don't get familiar with it. Definitely replace the seal in the bearing retainer, the one illustrated by 59 Floride.

    Those rear bearings come in three types, fully open, fully sealed or with a seal inside one side of the bearing. If you have the bearing with one side sealed off, that side goes inward. I have refitted one of mine backwards, which isn't a burning issue but long term it isn't right from a lubrication perspective and the thing needs to be pulled apart again and fixed sometime.

    I'd offer to lend you my hub puller but you are a bit remote from Perth, in common with most of the world.....
    JohnW

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    The bearing should have a curved inner edge and that goes against a curved edge on the axle when the bearing is pulled up tight. The correct bearing with a curved edge is hard to get. The reason for the curve is to make breaking an axle at the point where it meets the bearing less likely. If you get a bearing without the curved edge then perhaps you should grind some metal off with a Dremel. How ever, fine metal grit from grinding the curve would not do the bearing any good at all. I have not ground the metal off and pulled the bearing up tight. The sharp edge cuts into the axle but still leaves a small gap on the touching surface. After a short while the nut tension, which is very high, from memory 160ftlbs, comes loose. Further the cut it makes in the axle weakens it. On my trip to Junee that is what happened my nut became loose. So do I now grind off a curved edge on the bearing? Perhaps I could put a lot of grease on the bearing, cover it with good sticky tape leaving only the edge I wish to grind exposed. Then wash it all out throughly afterwards.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    The bearing should have a curved inner edge and that goes against a curved edge on the axle when the bearing is pulled up tight. The correct bearing with a curved edge is hard to get. The reason for the curve is to make breaking an axle at the point where it meets the bearing less likely. If you get a bearing without the curved edge then perhaps you should grind some metal off with a Dremel. How ever, fine metal grit from grinding the curve would not do the bearing any good at all. I have not ground the metal off and pulled the bearing up tight. The sharp edge cuts into the axle but still leaves a small gap on the touching surface. After a short while the nut tension, which is very high, from memory 160ftlbs, comes loose. Further the cut it makes in the axle weakens it. On my trip to Junee that is what happened my nut became loose. So do I now grind off a curved edge on the bearing? Perhaps I could put a lot of grease on the bearing, cover it with good sticky tape leaving only the edge I wish to grind exposed. Then wash it all out throughly afterwards.
    That's interesting - I can't remember whether I once knew that. My spares are genuine but I'll have to check them now.

    Thanks for the information.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Hi Henry,
    Reading your thread again, and just for your sake, I would check the inner UJ as well. I have seen a few where the wheel has a bit of play in the bearing but the outer bearing is OK, it was the inner UJ that was worn.

    Ray
    Ray geckoeng

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That's interesting - I can't remember whether I once knew that. My spares are genuine but I'll have to check them now.

    Thanks for the information.
    I actually had the correct bearing but in a rush to get away to Junee could not find them so rushed off to our local bearing store, which is very good and after some ringing around they found that bearings out of a Nissan? gearbox fitted. But had the sharp edge. I have now found the new old stock bearings and will replace them. At the time I also bought a set for the R10 and so I will have to modify one set at least.

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    By the way if the correct bearing with the seal on one side is used then grease from the grease nipple will not get into the bearing because the seal prevents it. Actually we have had this discussion previously probably just around Easter 2013 because I had just done mine at the time. From memory it included photos of the bearings and workshop manual. If my memory is correct the early cars had open bearings and a grease nipple fitted. Later cars the bearings were sealed on one side with no grease nipple but a small bolt in their place.

  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    By the way if the correct bearing with the seal on one side is used then grease from the grease nipple will not get into the bearing because the seal prevents it. Actually we have had this discussion previously probably just around Easter 2013 because I had just done mine at the time. From memory it included photos of the bearings and workshop manual. If my memory is correct the early cars had open bearings and a grease nipple fitted. Later cars the bearings were sealed on one side with no grease nipple but a small bolt in their place.
    Exactly right. And I packed my new bearings very carefully, but fitted one bearing the wrong way around, also before Junee! Given low mileages I do (apart from Junee!!) there's no urgency. Mine has the grease nipples.

    Agree with Ray regarding play from worn UJ too.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    Hi Henry,
    Reading your thread again, and just for your sake, I would check the inner UJ as well. I have seen a few where the wheel has a bit of play in the bearing but the outer bearing is OK, it was the inner UJ that was worn.

    Ray
    I had never checked mine. Good thought I must do that. I will redo the bearings etc before Forbes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I had never checked mine. Good thought I must do that. I will redo the bearings etc before Forbes.
    Yes, even with new bearings you can often feel a wee bit of looseness from the other end. The mechanical advantage must be about 500:1 I reckon.

    When I replaced the R8 rear wheel bearings before Junee, it was the first time they had been done in 300,000 km. The bearings showed no "slackenss" wear at all but were rough, due to case hardening breaking down. The hub nut split pins actually had a dab of red factory paint on them!
    JohnW

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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! rubyalpine's Avatar
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    Guys,
    Thanks for all the replies. It looks like I've got the correct bearings. As soon as I get the new seals, I'll be onto it.

    Cheers, Henry
    When I find my feet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll know where I stand!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Yes, even with new bearings you can often feel a wee bit of looseness from the other end. The mechanical advantage must be about 500:1 I reckon.

    When I replaced the R8 rear wheel bearings before Junee, it was the first time they had been done in 300,000 km. The bearings showed no "slackenss" wear at all but were rough, due to case hardening breaking down. The hub nut split pins actually had a dab of red factory paint on them!
    Well done Johns R8. Mine were noisy as well but the car had only done about 60,000 miles when I changed them. But they were 50 years old.

  19. #19
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Well done Johns R8. Mine were noisy as well but the car had only done about 60,000 miles when I changed them. But they were 50 years old.
    Mine weren't even noisy but given age and distance I thought I'd play safe! Of course I've no idea how long they'd been a bit rough. In my case I'd greased them approximately annually since 1973 - three squirts from the grease gun.

    Yours? I'd bet lack of lubrication not age.

    I'm going to pull mine apart again over Christmas and swap the bearing around. I've actually a slight knock at the rear end - first time ever - so probably shocker bushes, again not touched since the Konis went in in about 1975.

    Cheers

    John
    JohnW

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    Yer my shocker bushes were loose and hard (the top ones)I just tightened them. I'll do all the front rubber wishbone pivot bushes before Forbes as they were noisy before RMDU so another 3000 k,s since that means they are overdue for replacement. It is just age more than mileage.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Yer my shocker bushes were loose and hard (the top ones)I just tightened them. I'll do all the front rubber wishbone pivot bushes before Forbes as they were noisy before RMDU so another 3000 k,s since that means they are overdue for replacement. It is just age more than mileage.
    Yes, mine too I reckon, age on rubber bushes that is.... I've new silentbloc bushes somewhere for the trailing arms too, just in case. All I have to do is find them, and hope I don't wreck the new bearing pulling it off just to turn it around. We'll see.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    I can't quote part numbers here but I have noted amongst my spare parts stash that some of my rear bearings contain different number of ball bearings, so they are not all the same. Maybe the Flories and Dauphine bearings have a different number of balls to the R10..?

    Just putting it out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    I can't quote part numbers here but I have noted amongst my spare parts stash that some of my rear bearings contain different number of ball bearings, so they are not all the same. Maybe the Flories and Dauphine bearings have a different number of balls to the R10..?

    Just putting it out there.
    Florides and Dauphines have a slightly smaller bearing, with the two stud retainer, unlike Caravelle/R8/R10 with the three stud retainer. I wonder, are those bearings all the same physical size?
    JohnW

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Florides and Dauphines have a slightly smaller bearing, with the two stud retainer, unlike Caravelle/R8/R10 with the three stud retainer. I wonder, are those bearings all the same physical size?
    In my R1130 (R8) P.R. 700 catalogue De Pieces (parts book) it shows both types of retainer.

    I think the early R8's have to two bolt retainer, and the later R8's had the three bolt retainer.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    In my R1130 (R8) P.R. 700 catalogue De Pieces (parts book) it shows both types of retainer.

    I think the early R8's have to two bolt retainer, and the later R8's had the three bolt retainer.
    I'd never noticed that Col. Mine is the second type of R1130, that is without the stepped roof and a few thing slightly different, but came of course with the old type gearbox. It has three bolt retainers.

    I imagine the book also shows two types of bearing too. Must have a look.
    JohnW

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