clio 1.4 into r10
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Thread: clio 1.4 into r10

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default clio 1.4 into r10

    G/DAY ALL has anyone tried putting a 1.4 Clio motor in an r8/10
    Cheers Peter

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Nope, but don't let that stop you.

    And don't forget pictures please..

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I think Simon posted some pics of someone having done it in Europe, but none in Oz that I know.
    KB
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    I know Steve Cav has looked into it and the engine block will bolt up to the bell housing. The block looks similar, just without the camshaft. Not sure if you could use the Clio clutch but I'm sure you could sort that out easy enough.

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    I've seen pictures of the RS Clio 2L in an R8 which would have to be a real hoot. I've wondered how a 1.4 Clio engine would go in a 8/10. I reckon someone has to try it. Do it Peter, you know you want to!
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    Use the 1.6 the block is near identical. With the important, more power!
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    At the Marques in The Park event to day in Canberra, a guy was telling me that he had put a Fuego motor in a R10 and it was registered.

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    A merit of the 1.2/1.4/1.6 is that it's light. The other options are not & would, I predict, make for somewhat ponderously difficult-to-catch handling.

    Cheers! Peter
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    The engine weight does need to be considered as Peter has pointed out. You'll also need to consider how much power the gearbox can take. You'll also need to run all the emission gear off the motor as well as the cat for it to be street legal.

    Both the K and F series engines use a iron block. To keep the weight down you may want to find something alloy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c.lees View Post
    The engine weight does need to be considered as Peter has pointed out. You'll also need to consider how much power the gearbox can take. You'll also need to run all the emission gear off the motor as well as the cat for it to be street legal.

    Both the K and F series engines use a iron block. To keep the weight down you may want to find something alloy.

    Why would you run all the emision gear and cats? You'd throw all the modern crap away and run a pair of webers wouldn't you? Remember the emission laws are only for the year the body is made not the engine.

    My brother has had a 12 powered 4cv legally registered for over 30 years and he is thinking of doing an engine upgrade and 1.4 (or 1.6) Clio with twin webers sounds like the way to go. It looks like it bolts up to the R10 gearbox and fits in the 4cv chassis without problem. He hasn't looked into clutch yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Why would you run all the emision gear and cats? You'd throw all the modern crap away and run a pair of webers wouldn't you? Remember the emission laws are only for the year the body is made not the engine.

    My brother has had a 12 powered 4cv legally registered for over 30 years and he is thinking of doing an engine upgrade and 1.4 (or 1.6) Clio with twin webers sounds like the way to go. It looks like it bolts up to the R10 gearbox and fits in the 4cv chassis without problem. He hasn't looked into clutch yet.
    I may have been fed incorrect information in the past then, I was told that if the car the engine came out of had emission gear then it had to be fitted. Much better the other way around. Not sure how much more power you'd get out of a Clio 1.4, it would need to be a bit or it wouldn't be worth it.

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    These days to be legal and engineered though, I believe it has to be <20% increase in capacity. If you used the correct 1108 capacity, it wouldn't meet the requirement. You'd have to cheat and use the 1289 version they got overseas as your base capacity.

    In an R8, you may be able to use the R8G capacity as being available in that bodyshell. There's a couple of relevant documents that are national I believe - VSI 6 and VSB 14.

    Whilst people may get engine numbers etc past RMS, VICRoads etc, it doesn't mean it is able to be certified under the VSCC.
    Last edited by renault8&10; 11th November 2014 at 02:20 PM. Reason: add R8 info
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    Wasn't there an R10 with a 1300? I though it was 30%.

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    My brothers 4cv is 1289cc and legal with R10 suspension and gearbox. R10 front X member welded in and everything. Vic roads were happy back in 1980 with no emisions at all because it's 1954 car. Basically a R10 with a 4cv body and R12 engine. He was thinking of going to 1.4 Virage power because no one would know.

    I'm not sure how the law stands now but 30 years ago he doubled the engine size and tripled the horse power and the law was happy, don't know if going from 1289 to 1.4 Clio is within the law or not.

    More recently a friend built a prized VW beetle. Did a full custom job, no roof, cycle gaurds, it looked like a scaled down 34 ford hotrod even a fake dickie seat with was actually the engine cover. I think it ran a 2 litre combi engine. My point is that when he went to register it he wanted to give it it's own name, Nothing visually was beetle so he didn't want VW on the papers but Vicroads told him to give it a new name meant it was a new car and had to comply with new laws, cats, airbags, everything, but call it a 63 beetle and it only had to comply with laws of the day. Plus an engineers certificate for the mods of course.

    Here's a picture, spot the beetle bit. By the way, the exhaust is fake
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails clio 1.4 into r10-brentons-vw.jpg  
    Last edited by David Cavanagh; 11th November 2014 at 04:30 PM.
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    That's my point Dave, Steve's is legal because it was done back before certification became required.
    I'm talking about someone wanting to do it now under current VSCC legislation. Your mate's VW is still a certified modded car under VSCC.

    Christian - the 1300 R10 was a 1289 engine. They called that a 1300 (1.3) and the 1397 a 1.4.

    VSI 6 describes what sort of mods to a vehicle may constitute that vehicle requiring an engineers certificate and is easier to read and comprehend. VSB 14 - Vehicle Standards Bulletin is more long winded and details what the requirements are to be certified. It is broken down into section by area eg Brakes; Suspension; Seats etc with an individual PDF download for each section - good night time reading!
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Here's a picture, spot the beetle bit. By the way, the exhaust is fake
    Door; windscreen wipers and probably wheels.

    If it is certified to LA2 code for the engine mods, it probably doesn't have the original wiper motor or steering column as they will need to be 2 speed and collapsible respectively, which I doubt they were originally. It shouldn't LA1 since the largest engine in a similar bodyshell would have been the 1500/1600 superbug. That change to 2L still puts it over the 20%
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    That's my point Dave, Steve's is legal because it was done back before certification became required.
    I'm talking about someone wanting to do it now under current VSCC legislation. Your mate's VW is still a certified modded car under VSCC.

    Christian - the 1300 R10 was a 1289 engine. They called that a 1300 (1.3) and the 1397 a 1.4.

    VSI 6 describes what sort of mods to a vehicle may constitute that vehicle requiring an engineers certificate and is easier to read and comprehend. VSB 14 - Vehicle Standards Bulletin is more long winded and details what the requirements are to be certified. It is broken down into section by area eg Brakes; Suspension; Seats etc with an individual PDF download for each section - good night time reading!
    What I'm asking is, yes Steves car is legal but is it legal going from 1289 to 1.4 considering the chassis was only designed for 748cc?

    With the VW, it's engineered so it's legal even though it was only built less than 10 years ago it still only had to comply with emission and safety laws from 1963.
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Door; windscreen wipers and probably wheels.

    If it is certified to LA2 code for the engine mods, it probably doesn't have the original wiper motor or steering column as they will need to be 2 speed and collapsible respectively, which I doubt they were originally. It shouldn't LA1 since the largest engine in a similar bodyshell would have been the 1500/1600 superbug. That change to 2L still puts it over the 20%

    Wipers and door hinges (doors are home made but the hinges are vw)are the only VW things. It's a 2L beetle engine. It would have 2 speed wipers and proper belts etc, he would do that for his own use regardless, plus the engineer would insist but I don't know about the steering column, I'll ask him.
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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    In SA, it's the other way round. Regarding engine conversions, you have to comply with the emissions that the engine came with. So my old 1977 TE Cortina with a EA Falcon 3.9L MPI engine had to have cat converter, small fuel filler neck for ULP, and all emission equipment the EA Falcon had. When I put a 289 Windsor V8 in my XE Falcon, I had to use the standard 2 barrel carby they came with, although they still made me use the carbon canister.
    cheers,

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    I still thought the VSB's were now national, but happy to be proven wrong. It also depends on the age of the vehicle. Pre ADR vintage is more allowance than something like a 77 Cortina which needs to meet ADRs.

    Dave - in my opinion, the change proposed in Steve's car would now not be legal under VSCCS however; and it is a big but..... if it was previously registered and legal with a 1289 which it was, then the step up to 1397 represents less than a 20% increase. Whether the authorities see it that way is another matter. Would they be able to tell the difference in engines, probably not. He could always try just changing the engine number over to the 1.4. The engine number itself gives no indication of the engine size, nor does the 842 or 847 unless you know the codes.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    I still thought the VSB's were now national, but happy to be proven wrong. It also depends on the age of the vehicle. Pre ADR vintage is more allowance than something like a 77 Cortina which needs to meet ADRs.

    Dave - in my opinion, the change proposed in Steve's car would now not be legal under VSCCS however; and it is a big but..... if it was previously registered and legal with a 1289 which it was, then the step up to 1397 represents less than a 20% increase. Whether the authorities see it that way is another matter. Would they be able to tell the difference in engines, probably not. He could always try just changing the engine number over to the 1.4. The engine number itself gives no indication of the engine size, nor does the 842 or 847 unless you know the codes.
    Yes if he went for a Virage engine that's what he'd do but with a Clio it looks totally different and he might not get away with it.

    J-man you might be right, these laws seem to get changed so often I don't know where we stand now. I need to ask a nice friendly highway patrol officer.
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    I registered my Floride only 3.5 years ago with a 1250cc R12 engine and disc brakes all round and the bloke at Burwood VicRoads loved the car and didn't ask a thing, paid him and walked out in five minutes. Yes the car originally came with a 850cc engine but because the car had been registered with that engine by the last owner all I had to supply was a RWC.

    Would the 2.0l from a Clio Sport fit just as easily as the 1.4 & 1.6?
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    J-man you might be right, these laws seem to get changed so often I don't know where we stand now. I need to ask a nice friendly highway patrol officer.
    Would he really know?

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    Would he really know?
    Good point! My experience with asking police for information is they say contact Regency Vehicle Standards! Confidence inspiring when they're the ones booking people.

    My experience with engine conversions and Regency is from years ago and likely to have changed twenty times at least since then.

    I sent them an application for approval in principle to put my 17 engine in my 4CV at least 6 months ago. They didn't even respond! Perhaps they thought I was joking

    I'm in no hurry so haven't followed it up
    cheers,

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