gave the fuego a service
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Thread: gave the fuego a service

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default gave the fuego a service

    This year has seen me so busy doing up my shed that i almost forgot the reason why.
    A few weeks back I decided that the shed was finished (it isn't), and it was time to start doing stuff 'in it' rather than 'to it'.

    Today it was the fuego's time for some love now that it's duties as a daily driver have once more been taken up by the RX$.

    There has been a bit too much sump snot coming out of the catch can and the telltale oil drops in the water which seems like head gasket. I re-torqued it which helped somewhat, but there was a spare gasket on the shelf so off came the head.
    As expected there was a little bit of mayo in some of the head bolt holes but no major breach could be found.

    Another reason i wanted to pull the head off was to have a look at the pistons to make sure there was no obvious signs of detonation, which there were not.
    If anything it was a little more coked up than i'd have thought, so clearly no water was getting into the combustion chambers.

    Yet another reason to pull the head was to install a different cam, a regrind.
    When i built the motor I was not happy with the regtound cam's bearing surface and decided to fit the OE cam.
    Now that my indifference levels are much higher (this is the motor that should have died ages ago) it was time to fit the cam.

    I'v got to say I'm underwhelmed with the difference.
    If I had of paid someone to do the job I'd be mighty pissed off with the lack of difference.
    Maybe it goes a little better at high revs, and maybe i need to time it better, but the bum dyno didn't register much difference, and the o2 sensor seemed pretty much the same using the OE cam's map.
    It even idles better now!!!

    Dont know difference what i was expecting, but something would have been nice.

    Whilst i was at it I thought some different oil might be worth trying.
    I dont think I chose a very suitable oil as the pressure is way down on what it was.
    Was seeing 17psi at a 900rpm idle on the thickest full synthetic Penrite make (15-60) but on their 10tenth oil (10-40) have to keep the revs at 1200rpm to kepp the same at idle pressure.
    I dont like seeing it drop to <10 psi at idle. Maybe I'm being a worry wart, but that seems rather low.

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    The new oil also doesn't get as hot either and i had to drive like a bloody idiot to get it up over 100 degrees in an attempt to boil off any water that may have been left in the sump.
    At least what came out of the catch can was clear water and not snot.

    The shed was an absolute pleasure to work in.
    All the little things That have been done like the painted floor and hose reel in the middle of the shed meant instead of slopping around in a coolant/oil/dirt mix and trudging shit everywhere, it is easy to take five minutes out, hose the floor with some mild detergent and mop it dry.....Luxury.

    Jo
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    The bum-ometer is very coarse Jo, from my observances compression needs to be high 10+:1 before obvious differences become apparent.

    Valve springs play a role.

    17 psi is plenty when warm, beware of coolant in oil - my understanding is it's not healthy for bearings.

    Keep us informed - why the leak?

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    The bum-ometer is very coarse Jo, from my observances compression needs to be high 10+:1 before obvious differences become apparent.

    Valve springs play a role.

    17 psi is plenty when warm, beware of coolant in oil - my understanding is it's not healthy for bearings.

    Keep us informed - why the leak?
    Dont know why the leak.
    Maybe I decked the block too much. Maybe I should buy some new head bolts???
    Unfortunatly the blueprint for every detail of this motor got lost up at bunnings when I used the same book to write a shopping list on.

    17 psi was the old warm idle pressure.
    New oil is under ten psi at the same 900ish revs, or 17psi with an idle of 1400rpm.



    I forgot to time the dizzy as it was rather late in the evening and turns out it was quite retarded.
    Fixing that made some difference.

    Bum dyno now notices a change in the very top end of revs.
    Today going around a long sweeper highway type corner in the wet that could previously be taken flat stick in fourth saw the car loose traction.
    Who ever heard of a fuego (not on TRX tyres) breaking free in 4th gear. Mistareno's car excluded.

    I might have to sack the bum and book some dyno time in for this version.
    Tuning the low load cels is easy on the road, but the beasty puts on so much speed so quickly that it cant hold a cell long enough for auto tune to do it's thing.

    jo

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post



    I'v got to say I'm underwhelmed with the difference.
    If I had of paid someone to do the job I'd be mighty pissed off with the lack of difference.
    Maybe it goes a little better at high revs, and maybe i need to time it better, but the bum dyno didn't register much difference, and the o2 sensor seemed pretty much the same using the OE cam's map.
    It even idles better now!!!



    Jo
    I have also found my bum dyno to be quite inaccurate. After doing even more modification work to my single cam BMW 2002, I found that it had 15 Hp more at the wheelson the same dyno, to peak at 165 at 6700 and only lost 3hp from that peak at 7300. On the road I really couldn't tell, as you can't push it hard enough, and on the track the time was quicker, but I was using new race tyres, so an inconclusive result.

    After all that, I do think if you are serious in looking at results, a better form of measurement needs to be found, but as you say if it isn't looking for more fuel it probably isn't making any more power. Where is it making peak power now? By retarding the cam timing a little, sometimes more power can be found higher up the rev range, at the expense of low down torque.
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    Jo An old motor vehicle mechanic with considerable experience reckons that with older engines particularly if they are a bit worn to get (in his words) "tractor oil". His theory is that pre synthetic oils the oil galleries and clearances were made for mineral oils and that is what they should be fed. My 405SRDT had plenty of miles on it and was using some oil (Semi Synth) which the previous owner was using and I changed to Penrite "Extra 10" I think it was called and it was 20 or 30w-60 and the problem went away. I think a fuego motor could probably be classified as. if not "agricultural" certainly "rural" and many old engines have lasted longer than some of the more modern ones on a diet of mineral oil.
    For what it is worth Regards Dennis.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    He means "real oil".
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalderton View Post
    Jo An old motor vehicle mechanic with considerable experience reckons that with older engines particularly if they are a bit worn to get (in his words) "tractor oil". ........

    Regards Dennis.
    Quite simply, I am after the longer life synthetic offers.


    Where is it making peak power now? By retarding the cam timing a little, sometimes more power can be found higher up the rev range, at the expense of low down torque.
    The motor makes heaps of low rev torque.
    Combined with the very low gear ratios, many of the gears become redundant as a result.
    Could travel quite fine with just second and fifth gear, and being a hoon in mostly 70km/h zones 3rd and 4th gear are usualy skipped.

    With the old cam I did try moving the timing around but it made bugger all perceivable difference.
    It was still grunty down low and a bit wheezy up high.

    If the new cam did show a point of difference it was that the motor wanted to keep pushing into the rev limiter, so maybe there are some gains to be had by raising the rev limiter and tuning those areas.

    Then again...it is rather traumatic taking the motor up to the existing 6k limit. Everything starts to go a bit nuts at that stage and it is much easier and probably faster just to change down a gear.

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalderton View Post
    ..... pre synthetic oils the oil galleries and clearances were made for mineral oils ........
    Agree about the clearances, so that is why I get synthetic of the approx same viscosity.
    Lasts 2 years for me, I do little k's on club plates.
    The extra $$ over 2 years is peanuts.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    The last two mornings of cold starts have left me with a sinking feeling of doom that maybe one of the plugs was getting coolant on it.
    The car has run like shit and showed almost the same symptoms that would show after an engine wash down where the ignition gets wet.
    Anything more than light throttle would see the car stall.

    Turned out to be such a simple fault.....I must have accidentally knocked the TPS and instead of reading 0% it was reading 4% with no driver input, which took it off idle map and straight into an acceleration fueling map.

    I love it when seemingly big issues turn out to be a minute fault that can be easily fixed with software changes.

    Jo
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Whilst i was at it I thought some different oil might be worth trying.
    I dont think I chose a very suitable oil as the pressure is way down on what it was.
    Was seeing 17psi at a 900rpm idle on the thickest full synthetic Penrite make (15-60) but on their 10tenth oil (10-40) have to keep the revs at 1200rpm to kepp the same at idle pressure.
    I dont like seeing it drop to <10 psi at idle. Maybe I'm being a worry wart, but that seems rather low.

    The new oil also doesn't get as hot either and i had to drive like a bloody idiot to get it up over 100 degrees in an attempt to boil off any water that may have been left in the sump.
    At least what came out of the catch can was clear water and not snot.

    Jo
    One hundred KM with that thin oil was enough.

    Today i decanted most of back into the bottle via the bypass oil filter and dump the rest out of the bung hole, changed the (primary) oil filter and threw in 5l of pen rite 15-60 full synth.

    Oil pressure has returned to what i call normal, 85degreeC, 850 rpm,17 psi.
    So if anyone wonders, full synth is fine in these older motors, just not thin stuff.

    Jo

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore View Post
    After all that, I do think if you are serious in looking at results, a better form of measurement needs to be found..
    Got a result today....Not in the form of a good measurement, but in bragging rights.
    Approaching a steep hilclimb which opens up into 2 lanes, the local HWP car was coming the other way so both my car and the modified toyota 86 in front slowed down to sub speed limit, just in case.
    I dont know how modified the 86 was, but it clearly had some nice custom exhaust work.

    Once the coast was clear, I threw into third and planted it, over taking the 86 up the steep hill.
    As I got along side him, the bait was taken.
    It didn't matter how hard that car tried, or how many gears the driver changed down, holding 3rd gear at WOT saw the fuego slowly accelerate past him.
    I know an 86 is not the fastest car on the block but I'm still proud that my 30 year old POS can hold its own against a much newer car of similar engine size and weight.

    Jo
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    I saw you thrashing round Dee Why West the other day Jo, and the car was gooooiiiinnnggg!! And sounding good, too.

    Alastair

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    Peps Artarmon have just the thing

    gave the fuego a service-shitboxoil.jpg
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alastair Browne View Post
    I saw you thrashing round Dee Why West the other day Jo, and the car was gooooiiiinnnggg!! And sounding good, too.

    Alastair
    Hi Big Al.

    I'm thinking that may not have been me.
    I dont recall being in Deewhy west, nor my car sounding good.
    The 'thrashing it' bit fits, but one out of three might not be enough for a positive ID.

    I'm thinking that might have been 12v fuego as his tuner is in that area, and his car sounds good due to a lot more effort in the 'zorst dept.

    Jo

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