What is this head off?
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Thread: What is this head off?

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default What is this head off?

    This was in the bottom of a box of parts I got with the first R10, what is it off and does anyone want it? The rocker gear is all there but very stiff, the rocker return springs may need replacing. There are no valves. There is some pitting on the bottom face where the cylinders are, the rest of the face looks ok.

    What is this head off?-img_20140816_150246.jpgWhat is this head off?-img_20140816_150302.jpgWhat is this head off?-img_20140816_150310.jpg

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  2. #2
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    That looks to be head from the "Ventoux" series of motors.
    I would think that it is from a Dauphine.
    Seeing as you got it with an R10, I would assume that it is from a rear engined car too.
    However, on closer inspection there is a blanking plate at the rear/bulkhead end of the motor.
    It could also be from a Renault 4 of the first series in Australia, the one with the bread loaf grille.

    The casting numbers will identify it with certainty.
    All you need is someone more expert than myself!

    David

  3. #3
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Well we can rule out a Fregate...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What is this head off?-005-3-.jpg   What is this head off?-007-3-.jpg  

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    My guess is Dauph too. It doesn't have the bonnet rod drilling that 4CV's have ...
    cheers,

    John

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    I do believe we are narrowing in on it...

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    Dauphine Gordini and Floride

  8. #8
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    If the casting numbers help I'll take a look tomorrow and post them up.

    Sent from my C5503 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Hi,

    My guess is a Renault Dauphine Gordini head. The numbers on the head on my Renault Gordini motor are 256123-81 G for Gordini.


    Regards

    David

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Check out post number 5 by Simon which explains difference between the early and later Dauphine G heads.

    Year of Dauphine Gordini
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  11. #11
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    The casting number is 2561231_81 G. So I guess that makes it a Dauphine Gordini head.

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  12. #12
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    The staggered manifold studs also confirm it as a Type 670-05 Dauphine Gordini head.
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  13. #13
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    Free to a good home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    The staggered manifold studs also confirm it as a Type 670-05 Dauphine Gordini head.
    As does the one remaining locating sleeve for the inlet manifold. Some manifolds had both staggered and non staggered locating holes. I don't know what the different ones were for. Perhaps when used as a spare part they could be used with both manifold types. Some Dauphine heads had the locating hole for the bonnet prop similar to that on the 750. Why? Further some Dauphine heads had a hole in the top for water to circulate to the radiator as they were fitted with earlier style water pumps like the 750. Also as I understand it, the early Dauphine G heads had inclined valves perhaps Simon could confirm this.
    Last edited by Sunroof; 17th August 2014 at 08:43 AM.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    As does the one remaining locating sleeve for the inlet manifold. Some manifolds had both staggered and non staggered locating holes. I don't know what the different ones were for. Perhaps when used as a spare part they could be used with both manifold types. Some Dauphine heads had the locating hole for the bonnet prop similar to that on the 750. Why? Further some Dauphine heads had a hole in the top for water to circulate to the radiator as they were fitted with earlier style water pumps like the 750. Also as I understand it, the early Dauphine G heads had inclined valves perhaps Simon could confirm this.
    Content from Simons Post #5 from http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/new...treply&t=17326

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    The very early (up to around oval plate number 26,000) R1091’s had a unique Gordini designed head with angled valves, and alloy rocker cover as opposed to the later Dauphine G head with vertical valves. This early motor had the designation 670-04 as opposed to the later type with the steel G rocker cover and vertical valve head 670-05 motor which was also used in the Floride. Both produce around the same horsepower of 40bhp, but my guess the change was because the 670-05 motor would be cheaper to make using the existing normal Dauphine head castings.

    Those early 1091’s would be quite rare with elaborate Dauphine Gordini badging and non vented wheels, overall a plainer car than the later Dauphine G in terms of trim though. I’ve never seen one in the flesh, but have heard of the odd alloy rocker cover coming up for sale, and there are pics of cars in contemporary magazines and adverts with AUS rego plates so were sold in Australia. Being fully imported into Australia they were quite expensive at the time which probably explains their rarity, as well as their very short time on the market between 1960 and 1961. The later Dauphine G’s with the 670-05 motor were introduced in Australia in early 1961 and being assembled in Australia were a fair bit cheaper to buy at the time than the earlier model.
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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I would very much like the head for a friend that has just bought a road going 4CV, only that it needs a bit more sting on the hills. The thought is to build up an 850, do the usual hot up mods, make up some extractors and fit a pair of SUs probably. I have sent you a PM.
    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    Thanks for that, that information wasn't what I got when I clicked on the link.
    FIVEDOOR likes this.

  18. #18
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    I have been led to believe that the engine with the head with the inclined valves had a standard Dauphine cam. Gordini was asked not to change the cam and so changed the head by inclining the valves and there by creating a better flowing head. If that is so then I imagine that if an engine had the head with inclined valves as well as the G cam it would be even better.

  19. #19
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    This photo shows the dimple for the 4CV bonnet prop? The head is 2561231 there is no G but the engine is 670-05 *94080* and comes from a Floride I would believe it is original as it has low K's.



    This photo shows the dual stud positions for both versions of manifold. The head has the No. 2561231-81G engine number 670-05 143850. No idea what car it came from but I believe it came from a Dauphine G. Not sure if the head is original. The engine in my 4CV also has a Dauphine G head that has both stud patterns for the manifold.

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