Fuse to starter motor on R17
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Thread: Fuse to starter motor on R17

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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Default Fuse to starter motor on R17

    Hello all
    Just wondering if anyone has the fuses diagram or knows where the fuse is that connects the ignition switch to the starter motor? I found the fuse box under the steering column but no labels, however they are all in tact.
    Have possibly blown it as I now have no power going to the starter. No dimming lights or starter motor engagement.
    Regards
    Luke

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    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
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    There is no fuse to the starter. If wiring is factory there was no relay either. If its auto it has an inhibitor switch in he transmission preventing it from starting in gear. It doesn't have an aftermarket immobilizer?. Are you sure it's not getting power at the starter solenoid? There is very little between the ignition switch and the starter to go wrong. Im pretty sure the wire that goes to the starter from the switch should be a sort of off white color all the way through.

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    The other possibility is the ignition switch start contacts. I had this fault intermittently. Changed both the starter and the ignition switch. The second starter had the same problem ended when I found another starter.

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    having thought about it, the problem is more likely to be the ignition switch or the alarm that is causing the problem try changing the ignition switch without the alarm wires attached to it.
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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dav17ts View Post
    having thought about it, the problem is more likely to be the ignition switch or the alarm that is causing the problem try changing the ignition switch without the alarm wires attached to it.
    Hi All
    Thank you for your advice. Yes I did think they were quite simple ignition modules. It does have an aftermarket immobiliser fitted which may well be causing the problems. I was trying to locate the power window fuse for the RHS and removed what I believed to be the fuse for the immobiliser. I put it back in and the door locks clicked and seemed OK. I have locked and unlocked the car several times using the 'plip' as well as disconnecting the battery but no luck. Very strange indeed. Unless there is a 'magic' way to reset the immobiliser?
    I think I will take your advice Dave. I will attempt to attach the new ignition switch without the alarm wires attached. Just need to locate the original wires
    Cheers - Luke

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    Member dav17ts's Avatar
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    The ignition switch is a straight plug in plug. Just take the ignition switch out & plug the new on in this is all from memory. some one will tell me if I am wrong.

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    COL
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    You can try a few simple checks which only require a length of wire.

    1. disconnect the starter solenoid and with your piece of wire bridge between where u disconnected the solenoid wire directly to the battery, the starter should engage proving the starter is ok. Remember to make sure the car is in neutral.

    2. get under the dash and disconnect the ignition switch at its plug, I think it has 4 pins. By bridging out the supply wire (white) and the starter wire (grey). If this works the ignition switch is faulty.
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Thank youDave - yes it is a square plug. Saw it last night - I will try the new switch after trying Col's couple of tests.
    Thank you Col - The tests will certianly help to confirm where teh problem lies.
    Godo to know the white and greay wires - I will give this a try when I get home.

    Thanks again.
    Cheers - Luke

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by deja vu 25 View Post
    Thank youDave - yes it is a square plug. Saw it last night - I will try the new switch after trying Col's couple of tests.
    Thank you Col - The tests will certianly help to confirm where teh problem lies.
    Godo to know the white and greay wires - I will give this a try when I get home.

    Thanks again.
    Just remember that bridging the white and grey wire will only activate the starter motor, it will not start the car. You will need to bridge also the white to one of the other two remaining wires on the plug.

    Also make sure car is in neutral when doing these tests.
    Regards Col

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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Thanks again col for the advice. Partial good news. Tested the starter and it was fine. So replaced the ignition key barrel and the car the turned over using the key, but it would not start/fire up. Not even a burble. No spark it seems as I put a good dose of start ya bastard down the throttle body to aid in firing. I am now thinking it must be the immobiliser cutting the spark? I think that by me removing the immobiliser fuse the other night has caused it to lock somehow?? Now the hard part. How do I bypass the immobilizer so I can get spark to the dizzy?
    The mystery continues. Have discharged the battery so it will charge tonigh before i try again tomorrow.
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
    1974 Renault 17TS (1317) - Silver

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by deja vu 25 View Post
    Thanks again col for the advice. Partial good news. Tested the starter and it was fine. So replaced the ignition key barrel and the car the turned over using the key, but it would not start/fire up. Not even a burble. No spark it seems as I put a good dose of start ya bastard down the throttle body to aid in firing. I am now thinking it must be the immobiliser cutting the spark? I think that by me removing the immobiliser fuse the other night has caused it to lock somehow?? Now the hard part. How do I bypass the immobilizer so I can get spark to the dizzy?
    The mystery continues. Have discharged the battery so it will charge tonigh before i try again tomorrow.

    Thats good at least the motor turns over.

    If you want you can disconnect the wires on the + terminal of the coil and run a wire straight from the battery to the + side of the coil and then try to start the motor with the key. This will prove that the wiring is ok in the engine bay.

    If the engine fires you will then know that it is the immobiliser as you suspect.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Thats good at least the motor turns over.

    If you want you can disconnect the wires on the + terminal of the coil and run a wire straight from the battery to the + side of the coil and then try to start the motor with the key. This will prove that the wiring is ok in the engine bay.

    If the engine fires you will then know that it is the immobiliser as you suspect.
    Might be easier to pick up battery for the coil from the alternator. It is the thick white/cream wire. If you go from the battery make sure you leave a good clearance from the alternator fan and pulley.

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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    Thansk again guys,
    Also thought I should test the spark - low and behold there was spark coming from the plug, so it actaully looks like it is the relay to the fuel pump cutting the juice - again probably from the alternator.

    Will try he battery to alternator or coil and see if she fires up.
    Cheers - Luke

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    Electric fuel pump? Is it a TS or G? If so, there is a fuse for the ECU, and fuel pump, you haven't knocked those out when looking for a fuse for the starter? Pump should run for 3 seconds when you turn ignition to run, so you don't need to crank it to check for fuel pump operation.

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    It is an electric fuel pump. It is a TS. Yep the fuel pumps certainly does make the buzzing sounds for about 3 secs when I turn the igintion on. Fuses all good from what I can see. The plot thickens.
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
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    So, it cranks, it has spark and, (presuming the fuel pump is pumping fuel when it makes that noise) you have fuel at the rail. Interesting series of issues here, it used to go, then stopped cranking, now cranks but doesn't start? Or has it been sitting for a while?
    Is it injecting? A quick check of weather the injectors are getting power and firing is to turn the ignition to run, then open the throttle slowly with your head under the bonnet. Listen carefully to the injectors and you should hear them click 20 times between fully closed and wide open. This doesn't check the trigger system or anything else that it relies on to run, but if it does inject when you do this then you know that that part of the system is good.
    What do the plugs look like? D-jetronic systems can flood and refuse to start if things aren't right.

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    OK, the Ts is now running and it was 4 spark plugs that were fouled. The thing is when I did the spark test there was a slight spark on the no 4 cylinder HT lead to plug, so thought it was enough. I pulled them all out and gave them a big clean, then put them back in and - bingo it started first crank. I also noticed when I pulled them out that it was sodden with fuel, so is running very rich. The next step is to find the cause of the rich running. I am suspecting a fault coolant temp sensor. Will test the resistance and see if it is working as it should. I think it should have about 2000k resistance when cold, reducing to 800k when at operating temp.
    I have also purchased a new set of plugs so that I can swap them quickly if it fouls up again before I can locate the rich running issue.

    Thanks all for your help -it is very much appreciated and informative
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by deja vu 25 View Post
    OK, the Ts is now running and it was 4 spark plugs that were fouled. The thing is when I did the spark test there was a slight spark on the no 4 cylinder HT lead to plug, so thought it was enough. I pulled them all out and gave them a big clean, then put them back in and - bingo it started first crank. I also noticed when I pulled them out that it was sodden with fuel, so is running very rich. The next step is to find the cause of the rich running. I am suspecting a fault coolant temp sensor. Will test the resistance and see if it is working as it should. I think it should have about 2000k resistance when cold, reducing to 800k when at operating temp.
    I have also purchased a new set of plugs so that I can swap them quickly if it fouls up again before I can locate the rich running issue.

    Thanks all for your help -it is very much appreciated and informative
    Glad you got it going.

    I would remove the temp sensor and place it in a pan of water on the stove with a multimeter hooked to the sensor, also place a thermometer in the pan so you can observe the difference temp to the change in resistance of the sensor.
    r25 baccara likes this.
    Regards Col

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