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  1. #1
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    Default Scenic 1 Cruise Control?

    My recently aquired Scenic screams for a Cruise Control setup,it is such a lazy sit back vehicle that it must have cruise. Has anyone fitted aftermarket cruise to one and if so which one? I need to have a look at how the throttle cable attaches to the fly by wire box but I would imagine that it would not be too much of a problem.If anyone has one of these boxes doing nothing I would be interested to have a look before getting too serious about it. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    Regards Dennis.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I've got one on the rx4, which is a plain old cable throttle engine, and a rather clumsily dealer fitted vacuum powered unit.

    It might be different on a 2wd which I guess would have a higher power to weight ratio, but on the rx4 it falls a bit short up big hills if the speed is lower and the engine revs are not real high, 90 km/h in 5th gear say.
    Problem is it goes WOT and then loses all manifold vacuum (the stuff which powers the module pulling the string) which causes the throttle to slowly start closing until more vacuum can be developed to give it the pull to open the throttle again.
    This sort of cycling would continue if you didn't intervene with your foot.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I had a vacuum unit fitted to my RX4 by "Gary's Car Radio" in Elizabeth St Melbourne for and sold it with the car after nearly ten years. During all that time it never ever played up and would keep a constant speed of 100 km/h (or higher, never checked ) on trips between Melb and Merimbula. I didn't use it much going up Brown Mountain though!
    It's another lovely day! Again!

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Might be cheaper to see if it can be enabled in the body module using CLIP. Then you'd only have to fit the stalk/switch as required.

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    My wife's old scenic had a dealer fitted unit in it (2wd) but the car's gone to god, and we don't have any paperwork for it anymore.
    KB


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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    There are plenty of aftermarket kits available.
    Are you plsanning to fit it yourself or have someone do it for you?

    A cruise control from a later model Scenic with the F4R motor or say, a Laguna or Megane would probably be the easiest fix.
    There aren't a lot here in Australia but you could find one on Ebay from the UK.
    The UK being RHD might be less hassle than a LHD unit.
    The RX4 has a cable operated throttle, the 2WD is fly by wire.

    Try this mob, they list kits for the Clio and Master perhaps they can do a Scenic or the Master/Clio might also fit.
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Plug-in-E...ht_1688wt_1299

    Failing that they have universal kits that work with fly-by-wire systems.


    Ren
    Last edited by REN TIN TIN; 8th July 2014 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Add URL
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    Thanks for the replies. Jo I fitted an aftermarket cruise to my M/home Mazda T3000 so am familiar with underpowered setups and can live with that.
    Ren. That all looks ok but a bit expensive for me and maybe a bit complex for a geriatric.
    Addo. I tried that system with my Berlingo and it did not work for me and I would be surprised if the Scenic body module had the facility on board as apparently none of the Scenic 1 models sold here had cruise fitted or as an option.
    I fitted a Command after market vacuum cruise to my 306 and had no trouble with that and also finished up putting Yank vacuum cruise on the Berlingo which was better than nothing but not much, now that was underpowered. I will probably do the same with the scenic. I need to look at the cable connection to see how to hook up the Cruise cable before I commit to it.
    Thanks again for the ideas Regards Dennis
    Last edited by dalderton; 8th July 2014 at 06:44 PM.

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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    In theory, cruise control on the Scenic JA should be a doddle.
    There is already a VSS signal and it's drive by wire so you shouldn't need any mechanical devices like magnets strapped to the driveshaft and vacuum actuators.
    All you need is a microprocessor to vary the voltage to the stepper motor on the butterfly as the speed signal changes.
    (Yes I know there's way more to it than that but in very simplistic terms).
    It would have cost Renault peanuts to add and it would have been another box on the options list they could tick.
    If memory serves, I think the Laguna's of the period had cruise.

    My other car has cruise and I do miss it on the Scenic.

    Ren
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    Mine has an aftermarket cruise control unit which was fitted by a local electronics workshop before I bought the car. It's a Cobra, I think, and it's rubbish. It will maintain speed on the flat and going up hill, but as soon as I hit a downhill and it has to close the throttle, it cuts the engine somehow. I then have to shift into neutral and re-start the engine.

    This cruise control is wired into the loom just next to the accelerator pedal potentiometer in the engine bay. Ever since the car started playing up occasionally and corrected itself after I cleaned the pins on the potentiometer's plugs, I've stopped using the cruise control at all. I know it will screw up every time, and I fear that it will cause another breakdown later in the same month!

    In short, I'd recommend getting a vacuum unit unless you get a guarantee that an electronically connected unit won't mess up the operation of the car.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Scenic is drive by wire, so vacuum is not an option. You can get some dodgy systems that mechanically pull on the throttle pedal, but I dont think that is either elegant or advised.

    I vaguely remember looking at this when considering a Laguna 2 manual years ago that didn't have cruise and there was a company called Autron or Auscruise that did kits that properly hooked into the ecu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Scenic is drive by wire, so vacuum is not an option. You can get some dodgy systems that mechanically pull on the throttle pedal, but I dont think that is either elegant or advised.

    I vaguely remember looking at this when considering a Laguna 2 manual years ago that didn't have cruise and there was a company called Autron or Auscruise that did kits that properly hooked into the ecu.
    Haakon. I understand what you are saying about vacuum but I was thinking of pulling on the other end of the cable at the potentiometer in parallell with the throttle cable . I really need to look at the mechanism there to see what the possibilities are before I do anything. I really dont want to disturb it until I have to so I need the unit that lives in the engine bay that the cable feeds.Anyone?
    Regards Dennis.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I'd also have a squiz at Clio2 Sport - they have cruise and the same throttle components and might have compatible systems. I would not be surprised if the Clio2 Sport steering wheel with the cruise buttons fits.

    Renault are good at the parts bin thing, as well as building few variants of wiring looms which means its often a matter of plugging the bits in.

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Yes, there was from memory a factory option for cruise control on both 2 and 4wd versions.
    Yeah, Haakon is right, the 2wd got the fly by wire system where the 4x4 got the old cable throttle system.

    I'd like one to because the car does cruise well and your foot tends to go to sleep occasionally
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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalderton View Post
    Haakon. I understand what you are saying about vacuum but I was thinking of pulling on the other end of the cable at the potentiometer in parallell with the throttle cable . I really need to look at the mechanism there to see what the possibilities are before I do anything. I really dont want to disturb it until I have to so I need the unit that lives in the engine bay that the cable feeds.Anyone?
    Regards Dennis.
    Hello Dennis,

    There is no 'other end of the cable' on the drive by wire. There's a stepper motor operating the butterfly on the intake plenum but it doesn't have any way of connecting a cable to it so a vacuum unit has to pull on the accelerator pedal. As Haakon mentioned, these appear to be a bit dodgy and given the amount of force needed to move a accelerator pedal, it will probably be very hard work for the vacuum unit.
    The RX4 has a cable operater accelerator, perhaps one of these could be fitted to the 2WD version but then there are likely to be issues with the engine management computer.
    There is a company in Brisbane that sells kits for the Kangoo so they might have something that will work with a Scenic.
    Alternatively, there could be something available in Europe. I'm sure we're not the first people to think of retrofitting cruise to a Scenic. But if there is a compatiable kit it's likely that it won't come cheap.

    Cheers
    Ren
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Hello Dennis,

    There is no 'other end of the cable' on the drive by wire. There's a stepper motor operating the butterfly on the intake plenum but it doesn't have any way of connecting a cable to it so a vacuum unit has to pull on the accelerator pedal. As Haakon mentioned, these appear to be a bit dodgy and given the amount of force needed to move a accelerator pedal, it will probably be very hard work for the vacuum unit.
    The RX4 has a cable operater accelerator, perhaps one of these could be fitted to the 2WD version but then there are likely to be issues with the engine management computer.
    There is a company in Brisbane that sells kits for the Kangoo so they might have something that will work with a Scenic.
    Alternatively, there could be something available in Europe. I'm sure we're not the first people to think of retrofitting cruise to a Scenic. But if there is a compatiable kit it's likely that it won't come cheap.

    Cheers
    Ren
    No Dennis can use the other end without a problem. I've seen it done. Stupid Renault put a throttle cable on the 2wd version going in a throttle potentiometer.(which bolts just behind the gearbox) its fly by wire from there. I've seen cruise control fitted to that like it's the throttle body.

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    Cav91 Yes I understand how it works and where it is and what I want is to get hold of the unit behind the gearbox and figure out how to attach the Vacuum cable to it so it and the throttle cable dont interfere with each other, I will ring you tomorrow and explore the possibilities of getting the unit off you if it is not too expensive rather than disturb the one on the car. I am not sure that Ren understands that there is a throttle cable coming into the engine bay and operating the Potentiometer that controls the throttle body from where it sits behind the gearbox.
    Regards Dennis.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Hello Dennis,
    Yes the actual potentiometers are in a box mounted at the back of the gearbox but this box is sealed (as it should be if it lives in the engine bay).
    The cable enters the box through the top and only the outer cable is visible. There's no (easy) way to piggyback an additional cable for the vacuum unit on the engine end of the cable.
    I have to confess I haven't taken a really close look at the box and you might be able to modify it to attach a cable from the vacuum unit.
    I'm happy to be proved wrong.

    [/ATTACH]58377[/ATTACH]

    Cheers
    Ren
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    Hello Dennis,
    Yes the actual potentiometers are in a box mounted at the back of the gearbox but this box is sealed (as it should be if it lives in the engine bay).
    The cable enters the box through the top and only the outer cable is visible. There's no (easy) way to piggyback an additional cable for the vacuum unit on the engine end of the cable.
    I have to confess I haven't taken a really close look at the box and you might be able to modify it to attach a cable from the vacuum unit.
    I'm happy to be proved wrong.

    [/ATTACH]58377[/ATTACH]

    Cheers
    Ren
    Ren Thanks for the pic. That is the reason that I would like to get hold of a box to see if there is a practical way to,as you say piggy back the CC cable without its action interfering with the throttle cable. French Connection does not have one at the moment and it would be a bit expensive to buy one if they did. If anyone has one that is not being used I would be happy to pay a deposit and return it after I checked it out. As Cav91 has said, it has been done before.
    Regards Dennis

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I think I can see a cable in the PDF. My question is to those who might want to argue otherwise, why does it matter on which end of the cable you pull? What is dodgy about pulling on the pedal end? The micro-switches supplied in the vacuum kit immediately disconnect the vacuum "puller" as soon as the brake or clutch is touched. I can vouch for over 160,000 km of safe , worry free, vacuum assisted cruise control actuated through a cable. I think you have the bull by the horns, instead of it's balls.....
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    http://www.autron.com.au/pages/Auscruise/PDF/Autron%20Explains%20Pedal%20Pull%20Web.pdf



    If you're looking for some reasons not to fit a pedal-pull cruise read this article.
    Okay, the writer is biased and you might not agree with everything but one thing is not in dispute and that is that there isn't a lot of room under the dash near the pedals and a vacuum unit is big (Not a lot of room on the RH side of the engine bay either.

    You'll not get any argument from me on the reliability and safety of the vacuum units but they all operate on the throttle butterfly to my knowledge, not the pedal.
    The vacuum units are large and (in theory) if you can do away with them there should be a significant cost saving. The vacuum actuator has got to be around 30% of the cost of the cruise system.
    But the one with the money makes the decisions so if you're happy with a vacuum operated device and can get it to work then go for it, there are certainly more vacuum units around than the electronic types.
    If you trawl through Google you'll find kits in Europe but they're not cheap, around 300-400 Euro were the cheapest ones I saw (look up AP900 & AP500 for example).
    That might be a bit rich for what's around a 12 year old car.
    For me, I'd be going to the wreckers and looking at a unit from something like a Camry or another 4 cylinder car that's as common as dog shit (Hyundai maybe) and should be pretty cheap.
    It may not work but you won't blow a wad of money finding out.

    Cheers
    Ren.
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post


    http://www.autron.com.au/pages/Auscruise/PDF/Autron%20Explains%20Pedal%20Pull%20Web.pdf



    If you're looking for some reasons not to fit a pedal-pull cruise read this article.
    Okay, the writer is biased and you might not agree with everything but one thing is not in dispute and that is that there isn't a lot of room under the dash near the pedals and a vacuum unit is big (Not a lot of room on the RH side of the engine bay either.

    You'll not get any argument from me on the reliability and safety of the vacuum units but they all operate on the throttle butterfly to my knowledge, not the pedal.
    The vacuum units are large and (in theory) if you can do away with them there should be a significant cost saving. The vacuum actuator has got to be around 30% of the cost of the cruise system.
    But the one with the money makes the decisions so if you're happy with a vacuum operated device and can get it to work then go for it, there are certainly more vacuum units around than the electronic types.
    If you trawl through Google you'll find kits in Europe but they're not cheap, around 300-400 Euro were the cheapest ones I saw (look up AP900 & AP500 for example).
    That might be a bit rich for what's around a 12 year old car.
    For me, I'd be going to the wreckers and looking at a unit from something like a Camry or another 4 cylinder car that's as common as dog shit (Hyundai maybe) and should be pretty cheap.
    It may not work but you won't blow a wad of money finding out.

    Cheers
    Ren.
    Generally you wouldn't attach the CC servo unit to the pedal. You would normally do a piggy back at the throttle(quadrant?) in the engine bay.

    The vaccuum units are powerful and fail safe. Ie if power is removed from the control the vacuum is immediately vented and the throttle released

    AFAIK Toyota tend to use electric motors which acts on the centre of the throttle cable. IE the throttle cable goes in and out of electric unit. I believe there is clutch to disconnect the motor. This both complex to fit after market and needs specialist control circuits.
    The CC in my Toyota Estima is controlled via serial control off the body computer.

    Personally, I'd go vacuum control piggy backed off the throttle body.

    I had a generic aftermarket vacuum servo unit on my ex egg Tarago. That worked perfectly for 7 years and a 200,000km. It was on the car when I bought it and took the car to Adelaide when I sold it. So don't stress over reliability.

    I recall it was Command AP80 Products
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  22. #22
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    Ren You are right about fitting it to the pedal, no room under the dash especially if you are a geriatric with glasses. I have fitted Vacuum CCs to a Mazda Bus, a XSI 306 and a 2005 Berlingo and all were quite satisfactory considering what they were fitted to. If I fit one to the Scenic it will definately go in the engine bay where the throttle activation goes from cable to Electric. Exactly how remains to be seen.
    Regards Dennis.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Vacuum units operate well and are safe, no argument there.
    The problem is that on the 2WD scenic there isn't a quadrant on the throttle body or the potentiometer housing for a cable to be fitted.
    The throttle body has a stepper motor fitted to the RH side with (for memory) 6 wires going into it and nothing on the other side.
    The potentiometer housing would have a quadrant inside but nothing accessible on the outside.
    Both would need to be some serious modifications to allow an additional cable to be fitted although it wouldn't be impossible.

    This is the only reason I'm suggesting one of the aftermarket drive-by-wire cruise kits (or something salvaged from another car with drive-by-wire).

    Cheers
    Ren
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I think some custom cable work is in order.

    Use the Toyota part that has the throttle cable and the cruise cable acting on it, which then in turn feeds teh potentiometer. There is a custom cable specialist in Flemington id recommend.
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Essentially you need a dummy throttle body. Could use a cable splitter, but you want the throttle pedal to unaffected by any movement by the cruise module.
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