New (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    Default New (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV

    I recently found a 1980 Alpine A310 Fleischmann Group IV car and could really use some help from anyone who knows about this car. I have been reading up on here and although there don't appear to be very many A310s in Australia, some here seem to have a lot of knowledge about them.

    I was reading on the Alpine A310 Registry that there are 227 registered in the world and of them only 147 2700VA (V6 variants). The one I have is #46874 and has the 200 HP Fleischmann package, dual coils, fire extinguisher, etc.

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    Can anyone offer up any information about this car as there is very little I can find on the internet about it?

    Thanks in advance!

    New (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV-a310-01.jpgNew (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV-a310-02.jpgNew (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV-a310-03.jpg
    Last edited by Red Sonja; 16th May 2014 at 09:18 AM.

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    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    I believe it to be the exact same car in this Jalopnik article as the engine bay, wiring, and interior look the same and the odometer of this car is only slightly more than the one shown in the article.

    There just isn't a lot of info online about the car.

    New (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV-a310-04.jpgNew (to me) A310 Fleischman Group IV-a310-05.jpg

  3. #3
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    Welcome aboard, it looks an interesting car. There are a few (not a lot) A310s in Australia, though like the States, they were never officially imported and all were privately imported by enthusiasts.

    As for your car, if you need parts, google Simon Auto in Germany, they stock all the Fleischmann parts, such as body kits, wheels and engine mod parts. Interesting with your car, that they managed to fit the stock aircleaner over the triple Webers with the 200hp kit.
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    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    Interesting point... This car doesn't have the Webers.

    Hmmm... So.... a Frankenstein Car perhaps? Nothing more? Regardless, I have to say... it's a pretty cool little car.

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    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    I'm trying to find a conservatoire or Renault historian... I would like to run the VIN to see exactly what I bought...

    Can anyone help or offer up a contact or website that would accomplish this? I would really appreciate any help.

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Having had several A310 V6 in the past, going by the chassis number, my guess is that this car
    was just a standard 1979 2700VA.
    I do not believe it to be a genuine Group 4.
    It appears to have had a body kit glued on - a "Fleischmann" or copy.
    Wheels are 3 stud aftermarket.
    Sorry for this news, but I could be wrong.

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    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    That's why I need to chase the VIN... it's only 14 digits on the title... all modern post-1980 VIN numbers contain 17 digits. That will tell me if it's a factory Fleischmann or a Frankenstein bolt-on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
    That's why I need to chase the VIN... it's only 14 digits on the title... all modern post-1980 VIN numbers contain 17 digits. That will tell me if it's a factory Fleischmann or a Frankenstein bolt-on...
    Your A310 does not have an ISO VIN, or a VIN of a 17 digit format, as they hadn't been adopted by Renault or Alpine at that stage. I know less than the average Alpine or Renault punter about Alpines, so I'm drawing on info from the library to help ID your car.

    My sauce:
    Alpine Label Bleu (Serie et Competition) by Christian Descombes, 2nd edition 1995, ISBN 2-85120-395-9. A French language book, though the chapter "Identification des Alpines Types A110 et A310" is in figures that everyone can understand.

    For an Alpine, the diamond shaped plate is generally the key. 2700VA is obviously the model, #46874 is the chassis number. From the book listed above, that indicates it as a 1980 model year car. Also there is a small stamp on the diamond plate at the bottom of "80" this isn't detailed in the book, but on Renault diamond plates, such a stamp is also indicative of the model year.

    Now, the French model year runs from Paris motorshow to Paris motorshow, so a 1980 model year car would have been released at the 1979 Paris motorshow. The book above indicates the chassis number range for 1980 being 46356 to 47683.

    The oval shaped plate indicates on the top line the type, obviously 310. The next number is the country code, the market the car was originally built for, this is chopped off in your pic but the first two numbers give a clue 100 = French market car, 101 = Belgium market car, 102 = Italian market car and 103 = Netherlands market car. The differences generally being in statutory type equipment such as blinkers, emission control etc. The bottom number on the plate is the body number, this is used to identify the car from a parts supply point of view, the spare parts catalogue details the changes by body (or in Renault language, fabrication) number.

    The rectangular shaped plate details the manufacturer and type of paint in the first two boxes, with the colour code the end number. The first two numbers are fuzzy on my machine, the colour code looks like 30 (my stab at the code could be wrong), which is Emerald Green metallic.

    A birth certificate for your car could likely be obtained from Renault Classic by supplying the vehicle details through their on-line site here:

    Tools and services | Renault Classic

    Hope this helps.
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    Thanks for the great info! That's what I needed.

    For clarification, the Body code is 100, so it's a French market car.

    The rectangular plate lists " N A 303 "

    Great info! Thanks!!!

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    So... from the paint code of 303, it appears the car came from the factory with White Gardinia paint?

    This is what the car looked like when it came to California:

    1980 Alpine-Renault A310 (2008-02-27-08BQC24)

    The California owner then had it repainted:

    Spotted: '80s Flashback Renault Alpine A310 - Autoblog

    This article doesn't mention the engine upgrades, just the body upgrades, which seems to be exactly what has happened in the life of this car...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
    So... from the paint code of 303, it appears the car came from the factory with White Gardinia paint?
    Yes, that number confirms it as originally solid (so non-metallic) Gardenia. The earlier black pics look very special with the blue flash, it would've been easier just to paint the flash black to get it to look better. Also the car must have been around a bit, the earlier advert also mentions a German title.
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    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    Yes. I saw that. Contact with the US Renault Owners Club president has offered up a method of contacting the Renault conservatoire to research this car's original build card. I would be interested to find out when the Fleischmann goodies were added... at the factory or by one of the original owners? Not having the Webers indicates that somewhere along the line, this car only had the cosmetic upgrades, not the go-fast goodies.

    Stay tuned. More to come!

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    Does anyone have the repair manual for the A310? I have looked online everywhere but can only find one in French, which unfortunately, I do not speak or read very well... I suppose I could use an online translator, but that seldom works for technical terms.

    What I'm really interested in are the tune-up specs for the 1980 V6...

    Point gap... plug gap... distributor timing... etc. She's running a bit off and I want to check these items.

    Thanks for all the help guys! There is a ton of cool threads on here... And I'm loving the restoration threads!

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    I do not have much info on the Renno but would like to say welcome to Aussie Frogs.

    Doing the Daffyduck dance via the AussieFrogs app.

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    Tuning of these engines is a little bit tricky.
    You most probably have the twin coil setup, so you have to think of it as
    two 3 cylinder engines.
    I am going by memory here as I can't lay my hands on the spec sheets.
    If you can get specs on R30 TS (V6), these should be similar.
    If as you say it is running a bit off, I would methodically run through these steps.
    Might seem a long route, but will probably save you a fair bit of time in the long run.

    Try to get the engine up to temperature, with the aircleaner removed.
    Check that the choke flap on the small carby is almost closed when cold.
    This should gradually open as the engine warms up.
    You will see some small water hoses running to the choke actuating mechanism
    on the side of the small carby.
    You should be able to feel these hoses warming up as the coolant flows through.
    It is not uncommon for these to block up, and you may feel the stiffness if they are
    blocked with rubbish. In this case, the choke flap will not readily open.
    If there are problems here, leave it for now and revisit when engine condition and ignition have been sorted.

    Let the engine cool a little and remove the spark plugs taking note of their condition as this may
    give you some clues. Don't worry too much at this stage if they are black from cold start and choke.
    Run a compression test on each cylinder with the choke and throttle flaps jammed open on the small carby.

    With the engine completely cooled, adjust valve lash - inlet .10 exhaust .25 mm.
    Note these engines always sound tappety especially with alloy rocker covers as you have.
    Not a bad idea to give it a fresh oil and filter change.

    Ignition setup is quite involved.
    First thing to check is condition of the distributor cap, corrosion on the terminals, the two brushes and the rotor.
    A new set of correct spark plugs wouldn't hurt - usually come pre gapped.
    With a timing light, check idle timing at around 10 deg before.
    The crank pulley should have two notches and a corresponding pointer on a small plate on the timing cover,
    or cast in. Or you can check through the hole in the bellhousing onto the flywheel.
    If you turn the engine over slowly, you will find two slots cut into the flywheel.
    Some white paint to highlight these can make viewing a lot easier.
    If the timing for both banks are reasonably similar, LEAVE THE DISTRIBUTOR INTERNALS ALONE.
    The distributor runs two pairs of points (I have some) and the gap settings change the timing.
    There is also a "phasing" adjustment.

    See how you go with the above.

  16. #16
    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    OK... Well, the car seems to run fine... Tuning isn't really a problem...

    But there seems to be a vacuum problem. It's got the single carb and the dual carb. But the throttle plates in the 2nd carb aren't opening. They move easily by hand. It appears this is actuated when the throttle cable is past a certain point to clear the throttle shafts... then the vacuum diaphragm should pull the spring and open the plates. This isn't happening.

    We have changed the vacuum lines for new ones. While they were off, I attached a hose to the vacuum diaphragm and sucked on it, and the throttle plates moved very easily with very little suction. So it appears that the single carb is just not building enough vacuum. Typically this would indicate a vacuum leak due to the carb gaskets having failed...

    Would anyone else have any ideas regarding this situation? I am a bit hesitant to remove the carbs on this car as a first step... They're not exactly uncomplicated... Thanks!!!

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    Didn't Wheeler dealers do a show doing one of these (not the fleischman just the normal one) but may be worth searching for online.
    They changed the carbie for a holley from memory, and got the complete kit from someone in the UK. Had a special inlet manifold up for the kit?
    KB


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    I saw that episode... That's how I knew what this car was. There is a holley conversion available... even here... It's about $1000+... Wasn't looking to do that at this point.... It may come to that... but wanted to keep it original for now....

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    Tadpole Red Sonja's Avatar
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    I was also wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for a wiring diagram for the Alpine? Someone cut and taped up a ton of wires that come from under the car into the engine compartment... and a lot of things don't work electrically on the car. I sure could use some help with the wiring diagrams to try to get this car sorted out.

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    Someone in France has kindly scanned the parts catalogue and workshop manual for the A310. The manual has a copy of the wiring diagram, the French is fairly simple, just either use a French dictionary or your fave online translate function.

    Parts catalogue:

    http://r1223.adelex.fr/pdf/pr1032.pdf

    Workshop manual:

    http://r1223.adelex.fr/pdf/MR-A310-2700VA.pdf
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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    French technical terms are easy to pick, and here there's a number of people who can help with just about everything.
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  22. #22
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    WOW! Thanks, Simon! That will help TREMENDOUSLY!!!

  23. #23
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    One set of points adjusts from outside the other from inside.
    This means it is quite likely that the external adjusted points have been done whist the internal ones are nearly closed up.
    Fit a Bosch electronic distributor from a Volvo, far better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve K View Post
    Tuning of these engines is a little bit tricky.
    You most probably have the twin coil setup, so you have to think of it as
    two 3 cylinder engines.
    I am going by memory here as I can't lay my hands on the spec sheets.
    If you can get specs on R30 TS (V6), these should be similar.
    If as you say it is running a bit off, I would methodically run through these steps.
    Might seem a long route, but will probably save you a fair bit of time in the long run.

    Try to get the engine up to temperature, with the aircleaner removed.
    Check that the choke flap on the small carby is almost closed when cold.
    This should gradually open as the engine warms up.
    You will see some small water hoses running to the choke actuating mechanism
    on the side of the small carby.
    You should be able to feel these hoses warming up as the coolant flows through.
    It is not uncommon for these to block up, and you may feel the stiffness if they are
    blocked with rubbish. In this case, the choke flap will not readily open.
    If there are problems here, leave it for now and revisit when engine condition and ignition have been sorted.

    Let the engine cool a little and remove the spark plugs taking note of their condition as this may
    give you some clues. Don't worry too much at this stage if they are black from cold start and choke.
    Run a compression test on each cylinder with the choke and throttle flaps jammed open on the small carby.

    With the engine completely cooled, adjust valve lash - inlet .10 exhaust .25 mm.
    Note these engines always sound tappety especially with alloy rocker covers as you have.
    Not a bad idea to give it a fresh oil and filter change.

    Ignition setup is quite involved.
    First thing to check is condition of the distributor cap, corrosion on the terminals, the two brushes and the rotor.
    A new set of correct spark plugs wouldn't hurt - usually come pre gapped.
    With a timing light, check idle timing at around 10 deg before.
    The crank pulley should have two notches and a corresponding pointer on a small plate on the timing cover,
    or cast in. Or you can check through the hole in the bellhousing onto the flywheel.
    If you turn the engine over slowly, you will find two slots cut into the flywheel.
    Some white paint to highlight these can make viewing a lot easier.
    If the timing for both banks are reasonably similar, LEAVE THE DISTRIBUTOR INTERNALS ALONE.
    The distributor runs two pairs of points (I have some) and the gap settings change the timing.
    There is also a "phasing" adjustment.

    See how you go with the above.

  24. #24
    Member 12vFuego's Avatar
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    Sorry if off topic, but while talking A310's, does anyone know whether there was much performance difference between the 3 vs 4 stud suspension in these models?

    The original 4 cylinder models had 4 stud wheels. They then went to 3 stud in the V6's till 1980, then in 1981 went to R5 4 stud inspired suspension. I've always wondered if there was much improvement in handling in the later models?

  25. #25
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    Anything that may have been gained with more precise 4 stud rear suspension linkages
    was well and truly lost with those oribble Michelin TRX tyres.
    - Unless of course, you were lucky enough to have a real Group IV.

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