A couple of questions for the hot em up boys
  • Help
Results 1 to 5 of 5
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: A couple of questions for the hot em up boys

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    North Rocks, Sydney
    Posts
    2,467

    Default A couple of questions for the hot em up boys

    Back in 1972 I altered my 1108cc Renault 10.

    I replaced the standard head with a 956cc 8 port along with sand filled bent pipe inlet, extractor and hollow twin outlet muffler system (inlet manifold ganged 2&3 and 1&4). I fitted a single 1 1/2" SU with needle from a Morris 1100 'S' (1275cc). The remainer of the motor was left standard.

    What was the likely compression ratio? (compression pressure measured around 195psi)

    Advertisement


    What was the likely motor output Kw?

    I contend it would just hold a Holden 186 off.

    95 mph indicated on the clock on the flat.

    The exhaust noise was beautiful!!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,547

    Default

    Love these questions.
    The 1108 had a CR of 8.5:1 which made the Combustion Chamber 32.4 cc.
    Assuming the 956 had the same CR (couldn't find excact figures) then the CC would be 28 cc.
    Put the 956 on the 1108 and you have 9.5:1 CR.

    That would guesstimate to 45-50 kW. The engine would have begged for a cam change!

    Regards
    Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  3. #3
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    Modern Motor magazine in December 1967, in conjunction with Renault Australia, modified a round-eye 10 to develop a Q-car 10S+. They used an R8 8-port head, with a later published 10.2:1 compression that had been ported and polished, a single sidedraft Weber 42DCOE8, Waggot 18/58 mild touring cam, 8G clutch/flywheel, and Delbridge inlet manifold and extractor.

    A before/after dyno and performance test was carried out:

    Before dyno:
    3200 rpm - 19.8 bhp
    4000 rpm - 21 bhp
    4500 rpm - 22.1 bhp
    5200 rpm - 17.8 bhp
    5600 rpm - 16.8 bhp

    After dyno:
    3200 rpm - 25.05 bhp
    4000 rpm - 28.4 bhp
    4500 rpm 35.8 bhp
    5200 rpm - 39.9 bhp
    5600 rpm - 37.2 bhp

    Before performance:
    0-30 mph - 5 secs
    0-60 mph - 18.7 secs
    0-80 mph - 43.9 secs

    40-60 mph - 8.6 secs (3rd), 10.5 secs (top)
    50-70 mph - 12.1 secs (3rd), 13.6 secs (top)

    Top speed 80 mph

    Standing 1/4 mile 22.4 secs


    After performance:
    0-30 mph 4.5 secs
    0-60 mph 13.8 secs
    0-80 mph 25.9 secs

    40-60 mph - 7.7 secs (3rd), 13.0 secs (top)
    50-70 mph - 9.0 secs (3rd), 13.1 secs (top)

    Top speed 90 mph

    Standing 1/4 mile 19.8 secs

    HR Holden performance (Modern Motor July 1966)
    Special 161 Manual
    0-30 mph - 4 secs
    0-60 mph - 14.3 secs
    0-70 mph - 19.2 secs
    0-80 mph - N/A

    40-60 mph - 9 secs (2nd), 6 secs (Top)
    50-70 mph - 10 secs (2nd), N/A (Top)

    Top speed 91.7 secs

    Standing 1/4 mile - 19.9 secs.

    HR 186S, 4 speed (Modern Motor, August 1967).
    0-30 mph - 3.7 secs
    0-60 mph - 11.3 secs
    0-80 mph - 20.8 secs

    50-70mph - 6.4 secs (3rd), 7.9 secs (4th)

    Top speed 98mph

    Standing 1/4 mile - 17.5 secs

    So a lightly modified 10 would likely be between the stock and modified 10, and the comparison with the Holden 186 would depend on the model (later HK/T/G likely heavier), and both sets of figures would then depend on the state of tune, speed of finger on the stopwatch, ball size, moon phase, driver talent, Monday/Friday car, etc etc....
    1963 Renault R4 Van
    1964 Renault R4
    1967 Volkswagen 1300 Deluxe
    1969 Renault 8 Gordini 1300
    2002 Land Rover Defender Td5 130 - ex-CFA Region 4
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,870

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    Modern Motor magazine in December 1967, in conjunction with Renault Australia, modified a round-eye 10 to develop a Q-car 10S+. They used an R8 8-port head, with a later published 10.2:1 compression that had been ported and polished, a single sidedraft Weber 42DCOE8, Waggot 18/58 mild touring cam, 8G clutch/flywheel, and Delbridge inlet manifold and extractor.

    A before/after dyno and performance test was carried out:

    Before dyno:
    3200 rpm - 19.8 bhp
    4000 rpm - 21 bhp
    4500 rpm - 22.1 bhp
    5200 rpm - 17.8 bhp
    5600 rpm - 16.8 bhp

    ..
    neat

    that's one of the tests I was referring to in another thread when I queried loss from flywheel bhp to that at the wheels. The gross (not flywheel) bhp of the R10 is 50. The maximum from the above dyno readout is just under half that. Hmm!

    It sounds like a good rule of thumb is a 50% loss; so, double the dyno figure to get gross. But I'm not at all sure that the driveline loss is linearly a percentage. My very mildly cammed 1.4 R8 (which is otherwise standard except for a 40 DCOE on a Lynx manifold & with a 4:2:1 SS extractor) is designed for torque, not power, & has 58 bhp at the wheels. So, hardly a wild conversion. Using the above rule of thumb I'd get 1296 R8G equivalent power. Nope. Is it torquier? perhaps; - but I can't believe that it's as powerful as the R8G. My estimate, using around a 30% loss assumption from a gross figure, is 80-85 bhp gross.

    cheers! Peter

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    North Rocks, Sydney
    Posts
    2,467

    Default

    Thanks Frans and Simon.

    I was not dreaming about holding the 186 off (As I had upset him and he was trying to run over the R10 engine lid and he was not able to, though I think I could see in the rear vision mirror that he had Lucus headlights).

    Must add that I had cleaned out the inlet ports and aligned all 8 ports to the manifolds perfectly.
    To get the mixture correct under acceleration I remember putting the SU needle in a hand drill and emery clothing the pointy end down and road testing by trial and error.

    My second R10 hot up was a 10S head, carb and manifolds on a 1258 (?12) bottom end. This car was a class competitive machine in (Legal) Khanacross until (you guessed it) I rolled it over. And after not being able to keep the doors closed when I rounded the 1st corner up Silverdale hillclimb, I scrapped it.

    Those were the days when you could have a lot of fun reasonably cheaply and you did not need loads of Kws.

    Thanks again
    Last edited by BIGRR; 22nd April 2014 at 12:40 AM.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •