Problem with my scenic
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Thread: Problem with my scenic

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Problem with my scenic

    How goes it.I have a 2001 scenic 2 litre , which has recently developed a bit of a problem.It starts, but then immediately, the power drops off and it stalls.If i hold the throttle open a touch when i start it and then ease off gently, i can get it to idle, but it fluctuates between about 500 and 1000 rpm. It only does this for a little while, before stalling again.If, when i can get it to idle, I rev it, it sputters and carries on, until it reaches around 3000 rpm, when it begins to rev pretty much normally.If I put it in gear and ease the clutch out at this point, it loses all power and dies.I thought at first it may be a blockage of some kind in the fuel system, but after having cleaned it from one end to the other, the problem still persists.It doesn't appear to be sucking air from anywhere it shouldn't.The coils are all working fine and the map sensor showed no problem on a hand held diagnostic tool. In fact, according to the hand held, everything is fine.I then found my way to the idle air control valve, i disconnected the plug, blew out anything that may be in there and the car ran alright for a little while after that.Although, it's now playing up in the same manner again.I was wondering if anyone could tell me, is there a likelyhood that it could just be the idle control valve sticking, or is it possibly something a little more sinister in the electrickery department. I ask, because, A/ I'm a bit perplexed by all of this and B/ I'd really like a second opinion before i go spending too much more money.I really like this car and would appreciate any useful advice anyone may be able to give me.Thankee

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  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    Hi Beans:
    You will see that very few Scenic questions get asked here and the classic experts tend not to reply to questions. If you think it's the idle control valve I would buy a second hand one of Dave Cavanagh and try it. How did you test the coils and plugs? Have you tried different fuel? Did you try and reset the electrics? Best wishes.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    My scenic has not mucked up, so i have not needed to crack into it and learn how it works.

    I suspect there are differences between the 2wd and 4wd versions too, like cable vs electric throttle maybe???? Not sure on that aspect.

    Anyway, from what I've learned from older renaults, For diagnostic purposes, the Idle valve can be substituted with a simple watering system tap to produce a good idle. Sure beats buying a new part when the old one might be fine.

    Also, with the Idle valve connected electrically but not physically, you should be able to move the idle speed around with the tap and observe the idle valve opening up or closing to compensate.

    Again, not certain about the modern renaults but on the older ones if the TPS (throttle position switch) is indicating a state of throttle open (when it is not open), the ecu will not engage the idle valve properly as it thinks the car is in a 'non idle' situation, so it might be worth checking that the throttle system is functioning Ok.

    Thats not the end of it either, because if the TPS is showing a false open throttle, the fuel/ignition map will move from the idle map to the map it uses for driving, so maybe you have a combination of things happening??

    when i can get it to idle, I rev it, it sputters and carries on, until it reaches around 3000 rpm, when it begins to rev pretty much normally.
    This statement does not make me think it is simply an idle valve, and makes me think the fueling is wrong, hence why you'd want to look at the TPS, or the coolant temp sensor.

    Jo

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Could be any number of reasons.
    You're saying it's playing up until you hit around 3000RPM.
    The idle air control valve is usually only working, well, when it's idling so you'd expect the effects of a dodgy IACV to go away long before 3000RPM.
    It's probably not an air leak, that would make the idle faster and it probably not plugs or coils or you'd have a misfire.

    When was the TDC sensor last cleaned or replaced?
    What about the timing belt, is it worn and slipped a cog?
    Any of the vacuum hoses cracked or perished?


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    Ren
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  5. #5
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    I would recommend, as I always do, checking the electrical connector to the accelerator position sensor and to the throttle controller. These are both in the engine bay (unless you have an RX4, in which case you have neither of them). The accelerator sensor is about the size of two cigarette packets and has the accelerator cable feeding into it, with an electrical connector as well. The electrical connector could have some dirty pins, which can be fixed by cleaning and light sandpapering or filing.

    The same issue could happen with the electrical connector to the throttle itself, on the throttle body. I've cleaned both of these connections on my Scenic and fixed its refusal to run. HOWEVER, my problem was accompanied by error lights and a fault code for a bad or missing signal from the accelerator potentiometer. If you don't have these fault codes, your problem may be different. But I'd still recommend cleaning those plugs because they will fail eventually.

    Is the dipstick properly pushed in? If it's out a bit or isn't sealing, it will confuse the engine management system on many engines.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    hi beans had similar problem with rx4,similar symptoms to blocked idle solenoid jet on fuego,having spare rx4 was able to swap idle valves over and transferred fault to second vehicle,valve located r/h rear of engine about 150mm from oil filler,in inlet manifold obviously.not sure if 2wd scenic has same set up,also good advice from fellow froggers to check electrical connectors and for vacuum leaks from inlet manifold area. good luck jim

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip76 View Post
    Is the dipstick properly pushed in? If it's out a bit or isn't sealing, it will confuse the engine management system on many engines.
    How does that work??

    Jo

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    I then found my way to the idle air control valve, i disconnected the plug, blew out anything that may be in there and the car ran alright for a little while after that.
    You did use some carby cleaner and compressed air? Have you also checked by energizing the valve and observed that it moves freely?
    "The enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge"
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacia4x4 View Post
    hi beans had similar problem with rx4,similar symptoms to blocked idle solenoid jet on fuego,having spare rx4 was able to swap idle valves over and transferred fault to second vehicle,valve located r/h rear of engine about 150mm from oil filler,in inlet manifold obviously.not sure if 2wd scenic has same set up,also good advice from fellow froggers to check electrical connectors and for vacuum leaks from inlet manifold area. good luck jim
    Dacia, yeah, the Rx-4 has manual throttle, i.e. cable where the 2wd is all fly by wire.
    Also, noted in a downloaded manual I have here, the idle is a real bitch of a set up.
    You'll all be interested to note this...the idle circuit is also interwoven with the power steering circuit...
    Idle speed corrected in line with:
    – air conditioning,
    – the information from the power assisted steering pressure switch,
    – electric balance,
    – the headed windscreen.

    All leads to lots of areas where there could be a problem
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  10. #10
    Member Philip76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    How does that work??

    Jo
    It changes the pressure in the crankcase and that affects the pressure of air delivered back into the inlet manifold, at a point after inlet air volume or pressure has been metered, so the engine squirts in the wrong amount of fuel for the supplied air. It might not happen on a Scenic but it is theoretically possible on an EFI engine and has happened to me in the past.

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