Replacement Distributor for my 1968 R10 running a R12 engine type 842-01
  • Help
Results 1 to 23 of 23
Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By R8philSA
  • 1 Post By J-man
  • 1 Post By JohnW

Thread: Replacement Distributor for my 1968 R10 running a R12 engine type 842-01

  1. #1
    Member Rob Caris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Shailer Park - Brisbane QLD
    Posts
    37

    Default Replacement Distributor for my 1968 R10 running a R12 engine type 842-01

    Hi
    I am very new to this site and have just had my 46 year old 10 arrive Just asking for some advice please - Can I just replace the current Bosch distributor in my 68 - R10 with a new ducellier Distributor Car as an Australian spec R12 motor from memory when I purchased my R12 in 1973 they were 1251cc. This jigger could now be 1289cc as a fellow frogger pointed out a couple of weeks ago if it has been resleeved.

    Advertisement


    The engine is running really rough and will not idle only unless it has resonable Choke applied, there is play in the Distributor shaft and the rotor is pretty loose as well..

    I think the best thing would be to replace the lot - New Dist, Points, Rotor and HT leads and adjust timing. If that doesn't work - I will then look at the carby I guess. In my enquiries have confirmed that a new Ducellier Distributor is more readily available for the R12 engine - Ken from Caravelle imports seems to be very helpfull in this respect.
    Any assistance is greatly appreciated...
    Rob C

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,427

    Default

    Have a look at the Ignition123 distributors.
    The aust agent wants about $550 for them but you can get them from Europe.

    Before spending too much money though, I would look at getting it tuned by a Renault specialist workshop (not a dealer though) someone like French car care for example.
    KB


  3. #3
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    It's how I roll...Brisbane
    Posts
    33,992

    Default

    I'd be checking the carby for vacuum leaks too. Since it needs lots of choke to idle indicates to me that the idle circuit isn't working because of lack of vacuum possibly from a bad gasket or more likely a worn throttle spindle..
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

  4. #4
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Have a look at the Ignition123 distributors.
    The aust agent wants about $550 for them but you can get them from Europe.

    Before spending too much money though, I would look at getting it tuned by a Renault specialist workshop (not a dealer though) someone like French car care for example.
    Be a bit careful there. The 123 for Renault is not specified for the R8/10 but the same "general" engine as used in FWD cars and DAF55. One of our number in WA has one and it simply doesn't work properly with his R8. If one of the "Tune" models fits, it would be a different story, as you could get the advance curve correct. But his is one of the multi-switch type and apparently none of the curves suit the car.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  5. #5
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    And, I completely forgot to say, check ebay France. Here's a brand new Ducellier for an R4: Renault R4 Allumeur Ducellier Complet Neuf Origine Renault 77 00 720 887 | eBay

    Search for "allumeur Ducellier" and R8 and R10. You never know your luck.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Vista SA
    Posts
    986

    Default

    I have just taken delivery of a 50 year old Caravelle. Took 10 starts and stops to move it from the front of the house to the back and then it only got there by giggling the accelerator and clutch. Air filter off and a look down the throat of the SOLEX told me the accelerator pump was not working at all. Also sever lack of power. Ripped the top half of the carbie of and took out the accelerator pump tube and delivery nozzel and blew them through until it unblocked. Also the internal passages within the accelerator circuit. Then out of interest I looked into the bottom of the float bowl to find about a 6-8mm of white sediment built up just covering the main jet from time to time while running. The car had been sitting for many months and the carbie bowl had oxidised, naturally when I gave it the fuel it all went into a milky mixture. Don't ask me how the transporters got it up the ramps of the truck, must have gone up there at about 6000rpm riding the clutch.

    So I cleaned it all out, change the external and internal fuel filters and gave it a start. RESULT: Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr like a kitten

    Cheers, hope this helps if the dizzy doesen't.

    Phil
    J-man likes this.

  7. #7
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    There are a number of different types of distributors fitted to the early motors. Also what carby does the car currently have? A single choke "something" or 32DIR twin choke downdraft Weber?

    Various Bosch dizzys:
    Type Number 9230062404, Renault number 7702050020 fitted to the 842-01 motor, initial advance setting 0+-2 degrees, 48+-2 degrees dwell.

    Type number 9230062409, Renault number 7702063120 alternative fitted to the 842-01 motor, initial advance 60+-2 degrees, 48+-2 degrees dwell.

    Type Number 9230062407, Renault number 7702062934 fitted to the 842-05 motor, initial advance 0+-2 degrees, 48+-2 degrees of dwell.

    A few people give the old Ducellier a bad rap, but apart from worn bob-weight bushes and worn spindle bushes from old age (don't forget to oil the felt button under the rotor arm occasionally), I think they are a good little thing.

    For a 12 motor the Ducellier distributor is marked with both the centrifugal and vacuum advance curves, of which there are a few types depending on the motor.

    The 810-02 motor (single choke carby) has a Ducellier dizzy with R251 centrifugal curve and C34 vacuum curve, then there is an alternative type marked R268 C34.

    The 810-05 motor (Weber carby) is marked R248 C34, the auto trans version R280 C34.

    Really though, KB has the best initial solution, get someone knowledgeable to look the car over, and identify what needs replacing. It will likely be a lower cost solution than simply throwing money at new components only to find something else is causing a problem. Things like non-standard or missing breather hoses can also cause running issues, so there are a plethora of different things that can cause problems in an older non-standardish car.
    Last edited by Simon; 28th March 2014 at 09:34 PM.
    1963 Renault R4 Van
    1964 Renault R4
    1967 Volkswagen 1300 Deluxe
    1969 Renault 8 Gordini 1300
    2002 Land Rover Defender Td5 130 - ex-CFA Region 4
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup

  8. #8
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    I have just taken delivery of a 50 year old Caravelle. Took 10 starts and stops to move it from the front of the house to the back and then it only got there by giggling the accelerator and clutch. Air filter off and a look down the throat of the SOLEX told me the accelerator pump was not working at all. Also sever lack of power. Ripped the top half of the carbie of and took out the accelerator pump tube and delivery nozzel and blew them through until it unblocked. Also the internal passages within the accelerator circuit. Then out of interest I looked into the bottom of the float bowl to find about a 6-8mm of white sediment built up just covering the main jet from time to time while running. The car had been sitting for many months and the carbie bowl had oxidised, naturally when I gave it the fuel it all went into a milky mixture. Don't ask me how the transporters got it up the ramps of the truck, must have gone up there at about 6000rpm riding the clutch.

    So I cleaned it all out, change the external and internal fuel filters and gave it a start. RESULT: Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr like a kitten

    Cheers, hope this helps if the dizzy doesen't.

    Phil
    Always good to have a compressor eh Phil....

    I'd buy a new fuel pump "avec levier" too. I have one on the R8 and the 4CV, and it is so satisfying to pump fuel up knowing how much less work the starter and battery will have to do. For an intermittent use car, they are brilliant.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Littlehampton, S.A.
    Posts
    23,655

    Default

    As mentioned, I'm thinking mixture problem too, given your choke remedy. I'd blow out the idle jets or go further like Phil did
    cheers,

    John

  10. #10
    Member Rob Caris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Shailer Park - Brisbane QLD
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Thanks gents, Simon your info is so detailed. Mate the engine in this little r10 is an 842-01 isn't that an early 1251 cc ?
    when I got my 1st r12 in1973 it was a pale grape coloured 12 GL -that had a 1251cc with a single throat solex carb -later changed to a 40 DCOE weber side draft - I ran sooo much better.
    this engine in my 10 could by now --- be a 1289cc re sleeved .... It has a 32 DiR weber twin throat down draft carb and standard R12 air cleaner.....
    I guess in simple terms - it's probably best to just replace the distributor question is - Bosch or Ducillier? Where can one get a new Bosch disi?
    I will get a small mirror to see if the part number matches the original Bosch type number 9230062404 you have quoted.
    surly they can still be sourced new?
    Thanks everyone

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Littlehampton, S.A.
    Posts
    23,655

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Always good to have a compressor eh Phil....

    I'd buy a new fuel pump "avec levier" too. I have one on the R8 and the 4CV, and it is so satisfying to pump fuel up knowing how much less work the starter and battery will have to do. For an intermittent use car, they are brilliant.

    Cheers
    I used to love those lever fuel pumps - just great
    cheers,

    John

  12. #12
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Caris View Post
    I guess in simple terms - it's probably best to just replace the distributor question is - Bosch or Ducillier? Where can one get a new Bosch disi?
    Unless you find a complete one as NOS, I think it will be difficult to source a complete new Bosch version of the desired type. OTOH, an old school Bosch workshop/auto electrician may be able to rebuild and re-graph the Bosch using NOS parts if they have any, given the internal actual components were used on a number of other Australian built cars using Australian Bosch components. Then comes the issue, is it cheaper to rebuild the Bosch, or buy a new Ducellier, and if required, get it re-graphed to suit your requirements?

    It sounds like your motor is a bit of a mixed bag according to its equipment and the engine data plate. Then there are other things like has the 1251cc 8.5:1 compression head been shaved, or replaced with a 9.5:1 compression head........ In which case an 842-01 dizzy may not be the optimum.

    Also check the Weber for the idling jets (and if an idle jet or two has dropped out), breather hose security (especially if it is using the R12 Weber manifold and fittings), loose securing nuts, warped carby base, etc that can cause poor idling issues.
    1963 Renault R4 Van
    1964 Renault R4
    1967 Volkswagen 1300 Deluxe
    1969 Renault 8 Gordini 1300
    2002 Land Rover Defender Td5 130 - ex-CFA Region 4
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    321

    Default

    G'day Rob,

    you may or may not have seen my parts sale here: Reno 12/15/16/17 Parts Clearance Bargains!!

    Picture 6 are the dizzy's I have; the one in the right of the picture is a Ducellier No P268 C34 as mentioned in Simon's post (No.7) above.

    It comes complete with points, rotor and leads. If interested let me know.

    Cheers

    Philip

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    176

    Default

    Hi Rob,

    Have you though about getting the original distributor rebuilt? I got my 750 one rebuilt many years ago, by the people who sold "Yella Terra" cylinder heads. There are probably people around who still do this kind of work. As well it supports home industries!


    Regards

    David

  15. #15
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ 750 View Post
    Hi Rob, Have you though about getting the original distributor rebuilt? I got my 750 one rebuilt many years ago, by the people who sold "Yella Terra" cylinder heads. There are probably people around who still do this kind of work. As well it supports home industries! Regards David
    That's a fair suggestion actually, if you can find someone with a proper distributor bench to set up the advance curves. It's "only" a matter of a few small bushes and pivots being refurbished. For a 4CV distributor, there's a bench in Paris, but he doesn't have the drive attachment for the later Ducellier distributors unfortunately.

    Have you contacted the Renault folk in Brissie?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    You might try Bretagne Auto Retro too - they seem to have some new distributors: bretagneautoretro.fr
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Littlehampton, S.A.
    Posts
    23,655

    Default

    Pretty sure John from Kent Town Auto Tune can reco yours and set it up for you. Bit of freight from Adelaide though. All he does is set up old cars on his dyno and he has plenty of early Renault experience too.

    Kent Town Autotune

    6 Little Rundle St, Kent Town SA 5067
    (08) 8362 4906
    cheers,

    John

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    Pretty sure John from Kent Town Auto Tune can reco yours and set it up for you. Bit of freight from Adelaide though. All he does is set up old cars on his dyno and he has plenty of early Renault experience too.

    Kent Town Autotune

    6 Little Rundle St, Kent Town SA 5067
    (08) 8362 4906
    Wow. John Hurley is still there??? Excellent guy. Just excellent.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Littlehampton, S.A.
    Posts
    23,655

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Wow. John Hurley is still there??? Excellent guy. Just excellent.
    Yep, but he's not interested in doing EFI or turbos, just old school with carbies. Good on him I say
    Wildebeest likes this.
    cheers,

    John

  20. #20
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    Yep, but he's not interested in doing EFI or turbos, just old school with carbies. Good on him I say
    I should slip over and get the Citroen CX tuned up.
    J-man likes this.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    Pretty sure John from Kent Town Auto Tune can reco yours and set it up for you. Bit of freight from Adelaide though. All he does is set up old cars on his dyno and he has plenty of early Renault experience too.

    Kent Town Autotune

    6 Little Rundle St, Kent Town SA 5067
    (08) 8362 4906
    At around $A180 plus freight a new distributor assembly may be a better option?

    It doesn't take much to run up quite a bill with new points, cap, rotor and sorting the bob weights and of course the labor.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    loneliness capital of the world
    Posts
    9,340

    Default

    If the carby has play in the shaft I would say that's the starting point. Everything else will help just emphasize how bad the worn shaft (or bushings) are. There are places where they can re-bush the carby and give it a proper overhaul which will see it a s new. Don't know any mob in Brissie, but the mob in Adelaide (Kent town) is pretty good. they rebuilt a few of my carbies to original spec.

    One thing I have done myself was to replace such bushings with teflon sealed ball bearings. You can get these in a variety of sizes from a good hobby shop (radio control helis and such seem to use some really high tech ball bearings) and given your application these might actually outlast the car. I used really sticky silicone grease (the real Molykote stuff) to pack the bearings and never had a problem again. No play and the shaft was smooth as butter. This stuff doesn't dissolve in anything, and it's sticky as the proverbial, the only problem is to get the bastard off your fingers.

    With the dizzy, I would go to a bosch local with a good core example which some of these places can do wonders. There is such a place just around the corner from me, but I'm in the wild west, a bit far from you. I'm sure a bit of digging might unearth something closer to you.

    If your romanian serves you well, you might be able to get some unobtainium bits and pieces like dizzies, carbies, etc. Not sure the quality.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  23. #23
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    11,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    If the carby has play in the shaft I would say that's the starting point. Everything else will help just emphasize how bad the worn shaft (or bushings) are. There are places where they can re-bush the carby and give it a proper overhaul which will see it a s new. Don't know any mob in Brissie, but the mob in Adelaide (Kent town) is pretty good. they rebuilt a few of my carbies to original spec.

    One thing I have done myself was to replace such bushings with teflon sealed ball bearings. You can get these in a variety of sizes from a good hobby shop (radio control helis and such seem to use some really high tech ball bearings) and given your application these might actually outlast the car. I used really sticky silicone grease (the real Molykote stuff) to pack the bearings and never had a problem again. No play and the shaft was smooth as butter. This stuff doesn't dissolve in anything, and it's sticky as the proverbial, the only problem is to get the bastard off your fingers.

    With the dizzy, I would go to a bosch local with a good core example which some of these places can do wonders. There is such a place just around the corner from me, but I'm in the wild west, a bit far from you. I'm sure a bit of digging might unearth something closer to you.

    If your romanian serves you well, you might be able to get some unobtainium bits and pieces like dizzies, carbies, etc. Not sure the quality.
    That's interesting. Exactly where did you get the bearings please? And where exactly is the "bosch local" please?

    These things get to the stage where several things are bad at once, don't they...
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •