Clive is alive .... again!
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Thread: Clive is alive .... again!

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Default Clive is alive .... again!

    After about another year in hibernation, Clive the R10 is back terrorising the Adelaide Hills again. He gets better every time it goes back on the road. This time round he's been spoilt with a new steering rubber coupling (old one cracked badly), new rack boots (old ones split), anti rear-ender device (a new brake light switch), rear brake proportioning valve delete (brass 3 way union instead) and also a job I've had the parts for for years but have put off fitting - the gearbox mounts! I had the usual experience where the new side mounts don't fit, so I spaced them 12mm away from the crossmember to make them fit. The old side mounts were broken and the centre mount also had it. My only regret is not doing these gearbox mounts years ago. On the freeway at 70mph, I no longer have buzzing doors, windows and anything else with movement in it, plus I've lost 8 Dba in the process. The car is so much quieter with new gearbox mounts, it's unbelievable! I always thought it was noisier than it should be. Happy Days!

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    cheers,

    John

  2. #2
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Nicely done, good to see Clive doing his thing.

    If you had to pack your side rubbers down I would suggest the centre gearbox rubber is sagged.

    You may need to suck on a lemon before work so your colleagues don't start asking personal questions.. happy days.
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    I replaced the centre gearbox mount as well MG. I probably didn't explain it right but I spaced the side mounts like you did on the Floride but I used steel instead of wood.
    cheers,

    John

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    How hard/easy was the steering flange. I need to do this job on the white R10.
    It looks to have the original bolts etc in and not much space to work.
    KB


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    My 2 cents worth.

    The side mounts are under upward stress for a reason. I believe it is to ensure the top thrust pads do not have any weight on them. If the factory had of wanted them to have spacers ...etc etc. I think 12 mm is excessive, 8 mm might be closer. Even new Renault branded side mounts went in stressed. The side mounts support the gearbox end of the power unit and also provide for sideways thrust of the body during cornering. The top pads are just that, thrust pads for forward or rearward movement of the body when the wheels are set in motion. The only time these thrust pads should have any weight is if a side mount breaks. It is easy to bolt the new side mounts in, first bolt them to the gearbox. Then just use two longer bolts to bring the steel bracket up to the cross member and then use two original bolts to hold it there while the two long bolt are replaced with original bolts. The thrust pads should be held apart by a spacer that prevents them being compressed. The spacer is in three parts, a small diameter to fit into the metal of the pad to stop it moving. A larger diameter to hold them apart (prevent the rubber from being compressed). Then a plastic covering to stop wear if a side mount breaks. Sorry I can't take a photo of this tube as I installed new mounts and pads yesterday and I am not pulling them out again. I was also thinking about spacers for the side mounts but have just talked myself out of them.

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    Fellow Frogger! R10S FAN's Avatar
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    Awesome news John!

    My R10 is about a fortnight off being rego'd after I fit new front springs and fix a bit of bodywork. We should plan a drive day with some other Froggies!

    Cheers

    Anthony
    Current Frogs:


    1964 Renault 8 (1289 / Sonics)
    1968 Renault 10 (Modified 1.4L Alpine White)

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    My 2 cents worth.

    The side mounts are under upward stress for a reason. I believe it is to ensure the top thrust pads do not have any weight on them. If the factory had of wanted them to have spacers ...etc etc. I think 12 mm is excessive, 8 mm might be closer. Even new Renault branded side mounts went in stressed. The side mounts support the gearbox end of the power unit and also provide for sideways thrust of the body during cornering. The top pads are just that, thrust pads for forward or rearward movement of the body when the wheels are set in motion. The only time these thrust pads should have any weight is if a side mount breaks. It is easy to bolt the new side mounts in, first bolt them to the gearbox. Then just use two longer bolts to bring the steel bracket up to the cross member and then use two original bolts to hold it there while the two long bolt are replaced with original bolts. The thrust pads should be held apart by a spacer that prevents them being compressed. The spacer is in three parts, a small diameter to fit into the metal of the pad to stop it moving. A larger diameter to hold them apart (prevent the rubber from being compressed). Then a plastic covering to stop wear if a side mount breaks. Sorry I can't take a photo of this tube as I installed new mounts and pads yesterday and I am not pulling them out again. I was also thinking about spacers for the side mounts but have just talked myself out of them.
    I get what you mean about the side mounts, but the ones I bought from Caravelle were either wrong for my car or something like that, because even with 12mm spacers, the mounts are straining in the bolted up position in a way that would leave no weight load on the top mounts. They simply wouldn't bolt up without the spacers, even using your idea. I should have taken photo's too
    cheers,

    John

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    My 2c opinion.

    I think a R8/R10 is the best affordable small family car during its time. I will never talk it down. But, I think there is one thing the engineers fouled up and that is the mountings. All the mountings are mounted in a shearing position, and that is what is happening to them. It should not be like that. A carrying mounting should be compressed and a sideways thrust mounting should be compressed as well.

    The R8/R10 mountings will have to be replaced more often than a Cortina or Anglia mountings. It was and still is the bad part of a
    R8/R10. But that is all that is bad :-)

    Frans
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    How hard/easy was the steering flange. I need to do this job on the white R10.
    It looks to have the original bolts etc in and not much space to work.
    Ahh, now that's another job I'd been putting off for the same reason. Two of the bolts have split pins through the nuts, which were facing toward the column, and yes, they were fiddly to get too as well as undo the nuts. The other two are rivets. I can save you time by saying don't bother grinding off the heads and tapping them out - they are in too tight to tap out. I had to drill them out and replace with new nuts 'n bolts. I'd imagine the genuine Renault part would have come with the pinion flange already riveted to the coupling, but the non-genuine one I bought through Caravelle was just a rubber disc with steel sleeve inserts. When I'd finished that job, I decided to find the breaking point of the old cracked coupling. It was never going to fail completely - it has wire rope weaved through the rubber, so it can't let go completely.

    Clive is alive .... again!-steering-rack.jpg
    cheers,

    John

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    My 2c opinion.

    I think a R8/R10 is the best affordable small family car during its time. I will never talk it down. But, I think there is one thing the engineers fouled up and that is the mountings. All the mountings are mounted in a shearing position, and that is what is happening to them. It should not be like that. A carrying mounting should be compressed and a sideways thrust mounting should be compressed as well.

    The R8/R10 mountings will have to be replaced more often than a Cortina or Anglia mountings. It was and still is the bad part of a
    R8/R10. But that is all that is bad :-)

    Frans
    I completely agree Frans, and I would have preferred to use your genius design, but I'd bought these mounts years ago, so thought I may as well use them.
    cheers,

    John

  11. #11
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    A bit of Wax'n'Grease remover would work wonders on that dirty rack....just saying.
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    A bit of Wax'n'Grease remover would work wonders on that dirty rack....just saying.
    I was wondering if you would pull me up on that
    cheers,

    John

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    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    I knew there was something on these infamous gearbox mounts ....

    R10 Gearbox mounts
    cheers,

    John

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Wave if you see a silver Scenic - should be back up that part of the world in a fortnight or so!
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

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    Fellow Frogger! potentz's Avatar
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    i would really like to meet this CLIVE chap one day

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    I have been looking at my side gearbox mounts and it appears to me that they may have been constructed up side down. The rubber drops down rather than up wards. Well if it was reversed upwards then there would not be a large gap. I wish I had some original ones to compare. In a few days I hope to be trying them out and if the gap is as large as 12mm as has been suggested then spacers seem to be the way to go. While I have had mine for some time perhaps at one time a bad batch has been made.

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    I'm sure they were made wrong Rob. The rubber is on such an angle, I could hardly get to some of the mount to gearbox bolt heads without straining the mount away.
    cheers,

    John

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    Yesterday I finally got around to bolting up the side gearbox mounts and even though they were moulded to be down ward looking the gap was about 6mm to the cross member. I could pull this gap up with two (old and weak) fingers. So put the original bolts in without any trouble and no need for spacers. Who knows?

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R10S FAN View Post
    Awesome news John!

    My R10 is about a fortnight off being rego'd after I fit new front springs and fix a bit of bodywork. We should plan a drive day with some other Froggies!

    Cheers

    Anthony
    Count me in for a 'Froggers Folly' in the Adelaide Hills any time. I've been itching to do this for a year. Couldnt think of anything more exciting than a nice run to Swan Reach and back.

    Cheers Phil

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    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Hi John

    Great to hear you are back in the driving world again. Can't wait to see 'Clive'. Anthony want's a run in the Hills as well. Anytime you want to meet, I'm in for it.

    Cheers

    Phil

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    I'm sure they were made wrong Rob. The rubber is on such an angle, I could hardly get to some of the mount to gearbox bolt heads without straining the mount away.
    Strange John. I replaced both my GBox mounts last year when I rebuilt the engine. They fitted perfectly in, no spacers, no swaring even !! and the ones that came out were completely stuffed/sagged, so bad that when I took of in first gear the fan would hit the bottom of the radiator shroud. I also cahnged the engine mounts at the same time just in case.

    Cheers

    phil

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    Strange John. I replaced both my GBox mounts last year when I rebuilt the engine. They fitted perfectly in, no spacers, no swaring even !! and the ones that came out were completely stuffed/sagged, so bad that when I took of in first gear the fan would hit the bottom of the radiator shroud. I also cahnged the engine mounts at the same time just in case.

    Cheers

    phil
    Yep, I can't explain it Phil, other than they were made wrong. The center mount is offset and I fitted it with the offset facing up. I assumed it is this way so when the gearbox hangs on it, it drops down to be central. If I fitted this the opposite way round, that would lower the gearbox to double the amount of the offset and would explain the gearbox being too low, requiring the side mounts to be spaced. The other observation I made was when it was all bolted up, including with spacers, there was little space between the top of the gearbox and the floor, so the gearbox wouldn't want to go up much higher anyway. I'd be more worried if mine was the only case like this, but since a few have experienced it, I just put it down to a batch of mounts made wrong.

    The trouble 'n strife has managed to stay out of hospital for four and a half weeks this time; the best she's managed in the last two years, so maybe a fang through the hills with fellow R8/R10 maniacs is possible. Would certainly be a real hoot and a spectacle for bewildered onlookers!
    cheers,

    John

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! R8philSA's Avatar
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    That is certainly encouraging news about you wife. Yes, I'm seriously thinking of a date that can include Anthony as he works most days on the weekends. I'll check into it and get back soon. So is Clive registered, roadworthy and ready to go now ?? Phil

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R8philSA View Post
    That is certainly encouraging news about you wife. Yes, I'm seriously thinking of a date that can include Anthony as he works most days on the weekends. I'll check into it and get back soon. So is Clive registered, roadworthy and ready to go now ?? Phil
    Yes, Clive is registered, roadworthy and rear'n to go Phil but he's hanging out for a 32/36 Weber and extractors to get more out of that lumpy cam. That'll have to wait for now though since Mrs J-mans income has come to an abrupt stop with income protection depleted . It'll be great when Anthony's beast is on the road too
    cheers,

    John

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