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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Default R25 being considered...

    I think this is my first foray into the Renault forums so be nice...

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    My younger brother is considering an Renault 25GTX for his first car (can't figure out why - I think they look a bit bland... I do like the robot voice though ) We've found one for $1200 that's got full service history, a lady owner, 1986 with 227,000kms.

    We're planning on checking it out this weekend so is there anything in particular I should look at or ask? I've read that the autos can be expensive to fix, and the car is an auto. Are they particularly weak or something?

    How easy is the car to work on? Any much more harder than a 505GTi? I do most of the work on my car other than the really hard stuff which I leave to others, and I'm hoping the R25 is similar. I've never worked on a front-wheel drive car either but I can't imagine it being too different - the 25 had the same engine as 505s didn't they?

    Anyway, thanks in advance for the help. I think the frogs are going to start multiplying in our driveway...

    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverexec
    I think this is my first foray into the Renault forums so be nice...
    so long as you don't say anything bad about the megane/anglia you should be safe
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I actually think the new Megane looks alright, but anyway...

    I called the owner and got some more info. They are the second owners of the car, and apparantly it's got a full service history. It's been regularly serviced over the past two years that the current owners have had it.

    The only concerning thing is that the car hasn't been regularly driven over the past year, mainly just sitting. Would this have been overly detrimental? The owner tells me it still starts OK...

    I'm checking it out on Saturday so any advice would be appreciated.


    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  4. #4
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    after talking to the ex pug dealer here in town who really likes his renaults as well he said the R25 was a pretty good car but the first thing most did was turn off the voice feature
    Haakon knows a bit about the R25's
    as far as i know they are basically the same engine as the pug 2.2
    in this case if it has been sitting i'd change the belt and all the oils and coolant and maybe flush the brakes through
    3 x '78 604 SL

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! GavinS's Avatar
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    I've got the unleaded 25GTX , 87 build and enjoy the relaxed and comfortable drive it provides. It is not a sports car in performance but is no slouch in traffic and handles way better than my old VS comode, the internal space is on par but much more flexable due to fold down rear seat.
    Evidence that regular use of anti-freeze is essential in this all alloy motor. The auto gets a bad rap due to the general lack of knowledge of them by the average transmission repair place who are problibly hearing of it for the first time should it fail, there are some very good places for a service and report on its current condition. The replacement cost would be approx $2000 if it is showing signs of nearing the end of its reliable life, why wait for it to fail? If the current one has got to 227,000km , who's to say it wont do much more?
    The body is strong and has excellent corrosion protection and have not seen a rusty one yet.
    French electronics , well mine has an intermittent trip computer display which does not bother me as I fill the 72Lt tank each time and use the odometer to do that around 600 km and have not run dry yet , expect 9- 10 lt/100km, 30 mpg on average around town you may do better on a country trip.
    Cheers GavinS
    Cheers- GavinS 25 GTX 1987 build 2165cc auto - TBR. Renault is properly pronounced "Rhen-oh."
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  6. #6
    Simon's Avatar
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    It's the same Douvrin series motor as the 505. Check things like driveshaft boots for tears and leaky grease. Cam belt should be changed every 100,000k's. The auto trans is the big if on a 25, at that sort of mileage it all depends on when it was last replaced, or how it has been serviced in the past. Check things like the trip computer still being visible.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    after talking to the ex pug dealer here in town who really likes his renaults as well he said the R25 was a pretty good car but the first thing most did was turn off the voice feature
    Why on earth would you turn off the voice? It will only talk if there is something seriously wrong with the car. The system is specifically designed not to be a "chatterbox"

    If it's talking all the time, there is something seriously wrong. Actually, now that I see this advice was given by a car dealer, I'm beginning to understand...
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverexec
    I think this is my first foray into the Renault forums so be nice...

    My younger brother is considering an Renault 25GTX for his first car (can't figure out why - I think they look a bit bland... I do like the robot voice though ) We've found one for $1200 that's got full service history, a lady owner, 1986 with 227,000kms.

    We're planning on checking it out this weekend so is there anything in particular I should look at or ask? I've read that the autos can be expensive to fix, and the car is an auto. Are they particularly weak or something?

    How easy is the car to work on? Any much more harder than a 505GTi? I do most of the work on my car other than the really hard stuff which I leave to others, and I'm hoping the R25 is similar. I've never worked on a front-wheel drive car either but I can't imagine it being too different - the 25 had the same engine as 505s didn't they?

    Anyway, thanks in advance for the help. I think the frogs are going to start multiplying in our driveway...

    Cheers,
    Richard
    A good way to get plenty of past discussions re: R25 is to do a search for "R25" in the Renault forum (Search box is on the top right)

    You should find plenty of topics there, covering some of your questions.

    Oh, and ignore the occasional Peugeot interlopers here. They'll want you to buy a 505 or some other boring thing!
    '05 Pearl Black Mégane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    all the already mentioned things are valid.

    The R25 uses the same motor as your GTi, but is much better excuted. It leans over the other way, has HEAPS better access to everything and goes a lot harder than the pug version. The car your brother is looking at should be an unleaded model (with a sensational injetion system that is super reliable and powerful). Check this - it is much better than the supposedly troublesome earlier version, and gets climate control. Easy to see what it is (apart from the CC) - the ULP motor has a single throttle body above the manifold with "renault injection" cast into it, and the earlier LP have a twin throttle body hidden underneath the manifold with masses of hoses etc everywhere, and EGR pipes off the exhaust etc. The later ULP setup is 100 times simpler and relaible.

    Autos go for ever if maintained (mine has 230K km and is just starting to wear out and it has been very badly abused by previous owners) When it goes, convert to manual (RCCV president is currently selling a manual conversion) or spend $2200 on a changeover unit which will go for another 200K km.

    Electrics are fine and any problems will be down to things like dry solders, easily fixed. Make sure the electronic speedo works and is accurate (will cost ~$150 to have rebuilt)

    If you are lucky, it will still have its remote for the locking.

    Check the alloy wheels for dents (soft alloy). Check for power steering leaks (~$600 for a reco rack), but they only ever seem to leak if its been driven with torn rack boots.

    Front shocks, like Fuegos, R12s etc, are a pain to change, but KenFeugo has the special tool that makes it easy

    As with any car, check for accident damage and dodgy resprays.

    All in all, much nicer, faster, smoother, roomier and economical than a 505GTi. Much easier to work on, as you can actually see the engine
    For $1200 its a bargain, assuming it has a nice body and interior on it. Everything bar the auto is cheap and easy to fix.
    Get a good one and he will be very happy.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  10. #10
    farmerdave
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    In terms of fixability , the R25 is not bad to work on- everything mechanical seems to be well engineered with most problems due to dirt or old rubber parts. That said, my experience has been on a 1986 v6.
    Gearboxes are a favorite, but you have lots more options with a 4cyl than the v6 for a conversion if it does blowup. If it hasn't died at that mileage, it will probably be ok for a good while yet.

    Farmerdave

  11. #11
    Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    all the already mentioned things are valid.

    The car your brother is looking at should be an unleaded model (with a sensational injetion system that is super reliable and powerful). Check this - it is much better than the supposedly troublesome earlier version, and gets climate control. Easy to see what it is (apart from the CC) - the ULP motor has a single throttle body above the manifold with "renault injection" cast into it, and the earlier LP have a twin throttle body hidden underneath the manifold with masses of hoses etc everywhere, and EGR pipes off the exhaust etc. The later ULP setup is 100 times simpler and relaible.
    Not necessarily the case. LNC imported a large number of leaded 25's in 1985 which sold through to 1987 when, according to ones I have seen, the unleaded models came on sale. B29E is the leaded version, B29B is the unleaded version. Or just check the fuel tank nozzle size or injection as above.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    I don't need to say anymore, except my auto gearbox was changer at 335,000kms for a UN1 type manual.

    Either way it is a great car for the money. Much more style and flair that a PUG505.

    Go for it.
    Cheers - Luke

    1990 Renault 25 V6 Baccara - Gunmetal Grey
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  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    My father used to own a R25 auto (leaded model).

    I was always amazed by how quick is was for a 4cylinder auto --Though I think the leaded motors had quite a bit more grunt than the later models. You had to run PULP in it or it'd ping all the time.

    I'd be happy to own another Renault 25, the handling/ride comprimise is one of the best you'll come across (for a spring/shocker type car ). The auto, well it was actually quite a nice auto (this is coming from someone that hates automatics with a passion). It's only a bog standard 3speed, but it's streets ahead of the sh!tful 4spd auto, with partial lockup on 3rd and full lockup on 4th that was fitted to the BX16trs auto that we owned at the same time as the R25.

    One annoying thing with the car was it had a huge flat spot when the duel injection butterflys overlapped (nothing can be done about this). The only problem we ever really had with it was the plastic tank on the radiator died, and niggly little electrical problems that were succesfully totally ignored . Other than that, it was great.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeCass
    I don't need to say anymore, except my auto gearbox was changer at 335,000kms for a UN1 type manual.

    Either way it is a great car for the money. Much more style and flair that a PUG505.

    Go for it.
    There must be a heck of a lot of 335,000+km 25 automatiques out there, as I've heard of more dud 25 Auto's than I've heard of good ones! :-)

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    There must be a heck of a lot of 335,000+km 25 automatiques out there, as I've heard of more dud 25 Auto's than I've heard of good ones! :-)
    they did get a bad rap, but I have to wonder how much it is down to bad servicing - either by people who dont care about it as they bought it cheap and drove it til it dropped, or from people servicing them that have no clue whatsoever. Mine has been very badly abused by neglectful PO (the trans fluid was black and lumpy when i got it ) and IDIOT mechanics, and its still going.

    Its a pretty strong unit, but not a patch on jap stuff of the era for modern design. I'm working on a friends '89 jap import Galant, and it does make me think when I compare its twin cam 100kw sequential injected 1.8 motor with its smooth and lively 4 sp auto to the 90kw SOHC 8 valve 2.2litre, 3 sp auto R25 that cost me more.... I consol myself with the fact that the R25 dates from 1984, and its engine and trans date from the late 70s - jap stuff of that age is not nearly as good. Might be time to upgrade to a Laguna/Mi16 or something.
    Last edited by Haakon; 16th January 2004 at 05:46 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! deja vu 25's Avatar
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    I'll bet the Jap thing doesn't have the torque of the 2.2 litre?

    I am still amazed at how good the 807 engine is? What a little revver!!

    Oh, my auto box was still going, I jst destroyed a driveshaft and thought I may as well get the bo changed over as well - hopefully save money in the long run.
    Cheers - Luke

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  17. #17
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon

    (RCCV president is currently selling a manual conversion)
    I am??? Wow I wonder where I got it from?????

    Sorry Haakon but no I'm not.


    David.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I really appreciate all the responses, thanks guys. Not quite so happy about the all the 505 knocking... No style or flair eh?

    Anyway, I'll try to keep in mind everything that's been mentioned when I check it out tomorrow, and I'll pay close attention to the transmission. If the car's been maintained as well as the owners seem to be saying, then the trans should have plenty of life left.

    Even though I'm not too keen on the exterior, I think the 25 interiors look very swish for an 80s car, and how could anyone even consider turning off the "Hal" wannabe voice... "I can't do that Daaave..."

    I let you know how it works out.

    Cheers,
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverexec
    Even though I'm not too keen on the exterior, I think the 25 interiors look very swish for an 80s car, and how could anyone even consider turning off the "Hal" wannabe voice... "I can't do that Daaave..."
    Not so much swish for an 80s car as extremly 80s full stop! I think of it as my mobile piece of 80s retro chic
    And the voice is such a crack up - "warning - your ass is on fire!" I so want to reprogram it with a monty python french accent - "you 'ave left ze door open again, you silly english type person!!"

    and dont stress mate, I still love pugs (after all, I have had 3 of the things), its just the reno is a nicer design in my eyes, but I wont argue with those that prefer the pugs - both have their merits.

    Dave - sorry mate, didnt realise you were president. I am trying to remember the name of the chap, but he has 2 R25s that he is looking at selling for a new Megane. I was under the impression he was in the club - not sure why I thought president... He called me a few weeks ago to see if I was interested in the gearbox. When my brain decides to start working again, I will remember his name
    Last edited by Haakon; 17th January 2004 at 10:33 AM.
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  20. #20
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon

    Dave - sorry mate, didnt realise you were president. I am trying to remember the name of the chap, but he has 2 R25s that he is looking at selling for a new Megane. I was under the impression he was in the club - not sure why I thought president... He called me a few weeks ago to see if I was interested in the gearbox. When my brain decides to start working again, I will remember his name

    Haakon, I've been President over 2 years now.
    I think I know who you mean. Bloke named John Masefield (not sure on spelling).
    Am I right??
    He is a club member (never been President as far as I know) I would have his number somewhere if anyone is interested.

    David.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Thats him! Dunno where I got the president thing from, but he has a UN1 trans/shafts/pedals etc for sale, as well as 2 good R25s - one auto and one manual I think. I told him to try the Lotus clubs too to sell it, so dont know if hes still got it, but this was only a couple of weeks ago.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Not so much swish for an 80s car as extremly 80s full stop! I think of it as my mobile piece of 80s retro chic
    And the voice is such a crack up - "warning - your ass is on fire!" I so want to reprogram it with a monty python french accent - "you 'ave left ze door open again, you silly english type person!!"
    After sitting in the R25 today, I'll agree that it definitely oozes with the 80s! I like that sort of thing though so it's all good

    Here are my rough findings:

    A plate in the engine bay said "May 1985" so I guess its an older model that originally ran leaded, although the owner said he runs it on unleaded. I couldn't see a "Renault Injection" stamp anywhere either which seems to back this up.

    The interior and exterior are in excellent shape for its age. Still has it's original blue metallic paint that is only starting to thin on the roof, everywhere else still looks great. I couldn't find any rust. Seats are in great shape with no tears. The dash is a bit sunburnt and has lost some of its "fluff".

    The trip computer still works as does the "voice", although some of the gauges in the instrument cluster didn't work, including the speedo. Wipers didn't work either. I didn't get to try the climate control as the blower fan made scary noises when I tried switching it on, but the temperature display in the centre of the dash seemed to be indicating the cabin temperature correctly. Radio seemed to work well. Windows and central locking worked. I really should have tried pressing every button I could find, but there were just so many!

    In the engine bay, all fluids/oils seemed to look good. The engine did seem a bit oily around the sump area but I didn't notice any pools of oil on the ground beneath it. The owner said the only leak is a slight one from the transmission. CV boots were fine, but a steering rack boot is split and it was a bit oily around that area. The owner said there's a problem with the alternator not charging properly and this was confirmed by the "voice" in the car telling us to check the belt and go to the nearest service station...

    When I started the car, there didn't seem to be any unusual noises coming from the engine. The exhaust has a noisy leak somewhere which the owner previously told me about.

    The test drive was interesting. Brakes seemed OK although the rotors probably need machining. Steering was OK but lighter than I'm used to in my 505. The engine temp seemed to take some time to get up to half way, about 10 mins.

    My concern is that I think the transmission does need some attention. It tended to clunk going from 2nd to 3rd, and downshifts seemed harsh. Once when slowly coming to a stop at some lights, it repetitively felt like it wanted to downshift but then didn't, so we slightly bunnyhopped to a stop.

    The owner is willing to take into account a replacement alternator and exhaust repair into the final price which is nice, and he does seem like a genuine guy. While there is a fair bit to fix up, I generally feel good about getting it. I can tackle all the general electrical stuff myself, so I can see us having to fix the alternator, exhaust, steering boot and transmission.

    So, sorry for the long post but what do you guys think? Is it worth it? Does the transmission sound like it needs replacing or could it just need a flush or something? I guess if even we did have to spend $2000 on the trans, $3000 all up isn't too bad for a 25 in this condition, or is it?

    Cheers guys
    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    transmission.

    So, sorry for the long post but what do you guys think? Is it worth it? Does the transmission sound like it needs replacing or could it just need a flush or something? I guess if even we did have to spend $2000 on the trans, $3000 all up isn't too bad for a 25 in this condition, or is it?

    Cheers guys
    Richard[/QUOTE]

    Keep looking
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    Keep looking
    Really??
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
    - manual conversion

  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    transmission.

    So, sorry for the long post but what do you guys think? Is it worth it? Does the transmission sound like it needs replacing or could it just need a flush or something? I guess if even we did have to spend $2000 on the trans, $3000 all up isn't too bad for a 25 in this condition, or is it?

    Cheers guys
    Richard
    Keep looking [/QUOTE]


    would the transmission be too far gone you think for a nulon treatment ?
    i have used nulon on a few auto and manual boxes over the years and all have improved and kept on going
    the only box we could never save was one in my sisters 504 she had once. her boyfriend at the time drove the car as it were a manual and basically ripped the clutches out of it and they were left in shards in the chest of the tranny
    even the VH commode i had i put nulon in the 5spd and it made the car much better. it was nearly worth driving after the nulon went in
    3 x '78 604 SL

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