R10 Gearbox rebuild
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Default R10 Gearbox rebuild

    What's involved in rebuilding an R10S gearbox?

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    Does anyone who has done it before have a list of parts required and where they got them?

    Is it a relatively easy job to follow one of the manuals or is there a few watchouts?

    I've rebuilt engines before, and once helped rebuild a mini gearbox but in that case the guy doing the work pretty much knew what he was doing, i was just lacky as it was my box but i've pretty much shy'd away from gearboxes up until now.

    KB
    KB


  2. #2
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    What's involved in rebuilding an R10S gearbox?

    Does anyone who has done it before have a list of parts required and where they got them?

    Is it a relatively easy job to follow one of the manuals or is there a few watchouts?

    I've rebuilt engines before, and once helped rebuild a mini gearbox but in that case the guy doing the work pretty much knew what he was doing, i was just lacky as it was my box but i've pretty much shy'd away from gearboxes up until now.

    KB
    I'd start by finding one of the very latest of the R8 factory manuals, as they have MUCH more written about dismantling the gearbox than the early ones. I know enough to be dangerous I fear, so can't offer much but for the following:

    1. There are some threads here about some specific aspects.
    2. Not all the synchro rings are exactly the same for all 330 gearboxes - there is a small angular change somewhere in the run I think. Jean-Pierre Delaunoy knows and our Scottish Gordini frogger.
    3. The advice I've been given several times, and passed on here several times, is to be sure to change the energiser springs inside the synchro hubs. Caravelle used to stock them and still may. In turn this needs the hubs pressing off the shaft, which can be a serious exercise needing a big press and associated skills. The early manuals say it is forbidden but it isn't. But it must be done properly though. Pressing mine off almost defeated the local gearbox specialist (overnight in freezer, oxy torch on the outside and finally the ten tonne press did it. Not trivial but they aren't all as hard I'm told.
    4. I reckon the bearings, preload and shimming is not so hard but you need shims and the gear. I've preferred to get my diff set up by someone who has done a few - getting the crownwheel and pinion positions right isn't trivial. If you aren't changing the crownwheel carrier bearings nothing needs touching but you have to press the bearings out to change the seals and then replace with correct shims.

    The big bearing on the end of the pinion shaft is just about indestructible if lubricated. Again Jean-Pierre has them for sale on his site from time to time (Untitled Document) if you were desperate and he wouldn't sell a second hand one that wasn't OK. That "Untitled Document" takes you to his web site.

    All this means I'd be game to dismantle most of it and look closely for damage. I could check by eye (dubious?) whether the bearings actually need replacing but I'm not sure, unless the synchro hubs came off easily, that I'd be game to do the rest. Colliers come to mind....

    Be interested to hear how you get on.

    If you don't replace those springs, they will break eventually and can destroy the gearbox. My R8 has a 10S box, and it was "re-sprung" before I fitted it. No trouble since 1980 approximately. You know it still works!

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I've done a partial rebuild. I decided against changing the diff output bearings and the bearings on the secondary shaft as the synchros looked like they were still good. Also it looks like a bit of a pain to get it apart. I did change the bearings on the primary shaft as the small one at the input end was a litte rough feeling. Only one of the two is easy to get on the primary is easy to get, the other is some strange French SNF jobby. I used a bearing that was very close, see this thread 330 gearbox bearing

    It turned out that when I put it all back together I had to thin down a spacer shim to get the preload right. The bearings where very difficult to get off the shaft, you'll be needing a hydraulic bearing puller then a good size press to put the new ones on. I turned up a hollow drift out of brass to push them back on over the shaft.

    I got a gasket set from Ken at Caravelle the bearings just came from CBC, stuck it back together with a thin anaerobic jointing compound. Not sure how it goes yet as it not back in a car yet.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Kevin, if you do decide to do the rebuild, I've got some N.O,S. bearings and maybe synchro cones . Give me a call when you know. Chris.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,
    I'll chat to you Sunday re those.
    I still need to make over to your place for the washer switch too.
    KB
    KB


  6. #6
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    The only bearing that usually has wear is the pinion bearing, the rest being in fair shape. Of course this is the hardest one to change. Colliers would be my choice if you end up not doing it yourself.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    OK,
    Started to tear down a spare gearbox looking to rebuild. How the fook do you get the two halves separated?
    I've followed the manual and I'm up to the part where the manuals talk about "lifting off the top half to expose the primary and secondary shafts" - sounds simple right?

    As far as I can tell I have undone all that needs to be undone, but can't separate them. even a tap with a soft mallet isn't making a dent in it (figuratively speaking). What tricks do the old hands use?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1799.jpg   R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1800.jpg   R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1801.jpg   R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1802.jpg  
    KB


  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    In the middle are 2 M8 bolts with nuts. Have you taken them out? If so it might be the glue holding it.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I've done a scan around the "seam" and believe ive got them all out - what do you mean by "in the middle"?
    Do you mean the centre of the bottom seam?
    KB


  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    They're in here, two of them and probably hidden under gunk, you'll need to seal them up again on re-assembly or they will leak..

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1799.jpg  

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    No, it is just above and below the Pinion bearing, behind the diff carrier bearings in 2 deep holes in the casing.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Right you both are - thanks guys. that's a bit of a trap for young players, the manual doesn't mention those specifically.
    What do you guys think of the marking on the bearing surface shown in pic 2?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1803.jpg   R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1804.jpg  
    KB


  13. #13
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    KB I seem to remember similar markings in the same place last time I dismantled one but as the bearings were all sweet I dismissed it as a manufacturing thing..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Right you both are - thanks guys. that's a bit of a trap for young players, the manual doesn't mention those specifically.
    What do you guys think of the marking on the bearing surface shown in pic 2?
    It sure looks a bit like the outer turning doesn't it? I think/thought that the housing design would nip up the bearing outers in a pretty foolproof way. I don't recall anything about Loctite on the outer. Others will know more! Let's see whether Dauphproto or Frans comment. Very interesting.
    JohnW

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  15. #15
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    For what it's worth I think it's a good idea to seal the threads on the carrier studs to prevent oil leaks, especially the bottom ones that are in the oil bath.

    I have suspicions that this is the source of some of those maddening Renault gearbox oil leaks.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 Gearbox rebuild-dscn1803.jpg  

  16. #16
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    Also, when sealing up the cases don't overlook these surfaces as they are another source of leaks.


  17. #17
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Can't see that last pic Graham, but I'm a fair way off that stage yet, so no rush!

    Cheers
    KB
    KB


  18. #18
    Member dauphproto's Avatar
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    All good so far
    It does look like the pinion bearing has been rotating in the case,So
    check the bearing is not damaged and free running
    If it is all OK use a little bearing fit on the case halves on re-assembly use the snap ring groove area as you do not want glue sloshing around in your newly built gearbox
    Were the case bolts Damn tight on stripdown? They should be, you can usually tell if a box has been apart before by how tight the case bolts are
    All good advice about oil leaks I don't think it is possible to make one of these oiltight for more than a few months at a time,but you can get very close
    cheers
    Well if it was easy everybody would do it

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Hi Steve,
    they were hard enough to need a breaker bar, but part of that was needing to hold the casing with one hand and undo with the other. It had some black sealant visible between the two halves so probably has been apart at some stage. One of the bolts looked to have a bit of corrosion (like aluminium powder on it).

    I really don't know the full history of this box. I think it was the box that came with the yellow R8 when I got it. It was an R1130 shell but done up a bit like a gordini replica (four headlight front end). I sold it to a friend and possibly got the box back off him at some stage.
    KB


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