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Thread: Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File

  1. #76
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    After considering a few other points, the 8G being the key, I'm pegging the picture as being circa September 1967. Also I'm thinking it isn't JZA 930. In the Modern Motor road test, it refers to the white test vehicle being a full import, the white JZA 930 car has the same ride height as the JZA 931 red car, tending to indicate it is another "good road" spec car as opposed to the "poor road" spec 16 sold in Australia.

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    Whilst I'm banging on about 16s, it appears little known that the first 16 in Australia was imported by BMC for evaluation. Two recent books featuring BMC Australia history neatly avoid the 16, but mention a number of other vehicles that BMC benchmarked, such as the BMW 2000 and Peugeot 404. The Renault would appear to have been imported circa early 1966, registered in March, and featured in a Wheels road test in the October 1966 issue. I appears to have survived into 1967, being pictured with the Gerry Crown 8 Gordini from the BP rally. Another 16 in the where is it now file.....
    Hence the Morris Nomad of course... I reckon BMC Oz were rather smarter than BMC UK.
    JohnW

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    If you ever want to sell it, let me know.
    KB
    Hey, I was going to say that!!!!!!

    I had no idea he had the sign.
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Hey, I was going to say that!!!!!!

    I had no idea he had the sign.
    John, I need to move this down to Perth from the country very soon where I have had it stored for twelve years. I like this sign! I was wondering if some one could make up a stand for it so it could be used for SIVA displays as a lovely period sign, it is complete with all electric just needs a plug fitted. Do you think something could be made up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin View Post
    John, I need to move this down to Perth from the country very soon where I have had it stored for twelve years. I like this sign! I was wondering if some one could make up a stand for it so it could be used for SIVA displays as a lovely period sign, it is complete with all electric just needs a plug fitted. Do you think something could be made up?
    Do you have a used shop fittings or similar, recovery/recycling place in Perth. You should be able to pick up a light weight pole and base that would adapt as a support pole for the sign. If the interior is easily accessible, I'd suggest using LED lights coupled to an external 12 volt rechargeable motor cycle or security system storage battery without interfering with the original lights or need for a mains power supply.

    Ken

  5. #80
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Do you have a used shop fittings or similar, recovery/recycling place in Perth. You should be able to pick up a light weight pole and base that would adapt as a support pole for the sign. If the interior is easily accessible, I'd suggest using LED lights coupled to an external 12 volt rechargeable motor cycle or security system storage battery without interfering with the original lights or need for a mains power supply.

    Ken
    That's a pair of good ideas, for which thanks Ken. I was thinking of LED but the shop fittings approach I had not!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  6. #81
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin View Post
    John, I need to move this down to Perth from the country very soon where I have had it stored for twelve years. I like this sign! I was wondering if some one could make up a stand for it so it could be used for SIVA displays as a lovely period sign, it is complete with all electric just needs a plug fitted. Do you think something could be made up?
    Good idea, and the French Car Day....

    Come to a SIVA meeting and put the idea to a reasonably-sized group!

    Cheers
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  7. #82
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    The Renault sign is now in Perth. Now to relocate a 404 wagon. The resting place is no longer available.

  8. #83
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    This pic of Pound Motors was posted on a French Fregate forum as a possible source of my Fregate.

    I have not a clue where my car came from and probably will never.

    It's very interesting to note the presence of what looks like a Juvaquatre van..

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-austra10.jpg  
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 7th June 2016 at 08:11 AM.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    This pic of Pound Motors was posted on a French Fregate forum as a possible source of my Fregate.

    I have not a clue where my car came from and probably will never.

    It's very interesting to note the presence of what looks like a Juvaquatre van..

    What a great find! I wonder where they came across that picture.

    Iíd be thinking your Fregate was assembled by Berkís in Sydney. They were also the Queensland and NSW distributors.

    Iíve noted that Renault Classic are again issuing Certificates of Authenticity, itíd be interesting what information was available, if it was a CKD kit, where it was assembled, and where the car was sold? As opposed to a certificate confirming ďYes, it is a Renault FregateĒ.

    Link on their site:

    https://en.renaultclassic.com/tools-and-services/


    And the link to the application form:

    https://fr.renaultclassic.com/wp-con...nticite_en.pdf
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  10. #85
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    I am or the opinion that all Fregates were fully imported. I don't like banging heads with the Guru but are you sure you aren't mistaken about the CKD..?

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    I read somewhere that the "upholstery for the Fregate was made in Australia and was considered to be equivalent to that on the imported cars". I have put it in inverted commas even though I cannot swear to it being in exactly those words. Easy to find out I should imagine from the sites above whether it was CKD. I'm not sure how they handled CKD at Renault France records but I guess 50 EUR and we'll all know. I have often been going to get a copy of the document print out for some of my cars but never bothered. The documents I have seen are a bit disappointing and don't really tell you all that much. From memory, colour, engine and chassis numbers, date, etc, and who it was supplied to.

  12. #87
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Pound Motors period add for Fregate:-

    25 Apr 1955 - Advertising - Trove

    Review of the Fregate:-

    Renault Fregate
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
    Every day is a good day

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    I am or the opinion that all Fregates were fully imported. I don't like banging heads with the Guru but are you sure you aren't mistaken about the CKD..?
    Not all of them. Some of the very early ones, and, apparently, all of the Grand Pavois. The Aussie assembled ones have no stencilled factory or paint codes and also the Aussie heavy grade trim as well as Australian tyres, battery and obviously paint. The trim appears the same as the FE/FC Holden "Elascofab" trim. That's why yours would be hard to identify, given there was no trim, or paint code to stat with :-)
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  14. #89
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    Your depth of knowledge is astounding, that's for sure.

    The trim on my car is rolled aluminium and of very different profile to the polished stainless trims on the Holden.







  15. #90
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    4CV production by Berks remains confusing and/or poorly documented, at least to me. My Renault 750 was made in December 1950, judging by its oval plate number. However, discussions in Australia and France have not been able to establish whether it was built there or assembled in Australia.

    The date might be that of the oval plate being fixed to the body shell as the CKD kit was put together for export.

    Clues are contradictory:

    1. When I bought it in 1966 it had, to the best of my recollection, one very old French Dunlop cross-ply which I never thought of photographing.
    2. The rear number plate lamp is quite different from all French and most Australian cars. One other early R1062 car in Brisbane has an identical light fitting but I've never seen another.
    3. When repainted recently, the primer was remarkably tenacious - perhaps intended for export by ship? Who knows.
    4. The "dummy running boards" in France, and almost always in Oz, are chrome, reproduced in stainless. Mine have always been painted. Recently we had 80 examples of the 4CV at Montlhery, and all with those fittings were chromed. One 1949 R1060 appeared at the Muster in Cowra in 2007 with this fitting painted. My French friends have never seen this fitting painted, only in chromium.
    5. Mine had a mushroom-coloured fine wool fabric on the seats (the backs are still orginal). I recently saw identical fabric on an early 1951 car in France.

    The number plate lamp and the painted "running board" might hint at Australian assembly. The upholstery, old French Dunlop tyre and the good primer might hint at French assembly.

    I'm floating this in case someone has thought of anything else.

    All thoughts welcome.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-rear-number-plate-lamp.jpg   Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-4cv-oval-plate-25082.jpg   Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-4cv-diamond-plate.jpg   Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-4cv-carosserie-9827.jpg   Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-dummy-running-boards.jpg  
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  16. #91
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    What colour was the primer John, if it was this colour it would most likely be of French extraction.. IMHO?


  17. #92
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    Deep red-brown. I don't have a single decent photograph to show this, but I've done enough rubbing over the years to remember.

    Yours looks pinker than mine, but that might just be the photograph.

    Here's the car after soda blasting. The tenacious reddish primer remnants give the whole colour impression. It took dilute phosphoric acid to get it off.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Renault in Australia: The Useless Info File-stripped-metal-1.jpg  
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  18. #93
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    Not being a qualified detective or anything but the green primer above is the same hue as the original primer of my Floride. The Florides were all imported so therefor I conclude my Fregate to be French.

  19. #94
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    Green?
    JohnW

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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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  20. #95
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    Yes Green,


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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    The trim on my car is rolled aluminium and of very different profile to the polished stainless trims on the Holden.
    I should have been more specific, the same (or very similar) as FE/FC Elascofab seat trim.
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  22. #97
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    Oh I see, good luck identifying this..


  23. #98
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    CKD helped bring the Australian auto industry up to speed with European and US vehicle practices. The CKD R12s ended up with an over 85% local content.
    It's another lovely day! Again!

  24. #99
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    Ah. I definitely have no green at all, but the red on that is similar to my primer. Mine was made in late 1950, so a bit earlier.

    Thanks for that though.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
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    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Happy 40th Anniversary ADR 27A! Touted to be the end of interesting cars in Australia, July 1 1976 saw Australian Design Rule 27A emission rules introduced, with the aim of clearing the air pollution in congested city areas.

    It also signalled the end of the Renault 16 in Australia. There was consideration of installing the 1,647cc motor from the Swedish spec 16, which also introduced similar emission rules for 1976. However engineering the 16 to comply with the new Australian rule was deemed too expensive, and too late into its overall production life. Especially given the impending introduction of further Australian Design Rules rules in regards to braking systems, side intrusion and child restraint requirements in later 1976 and 1977.

    The Renault 12 range fared rather better. Gaining the Swedish spec 1,397cc motor, to become the 12 1.4, at the same time changing its type designation to R1179 for the sedan, and R1338 for the wagon. Given the stockpile of the May 1976 introduction, non-27A compliant, 12XL, the official release of the 12 1.4, as yet another additional model to the 12XL and 12GL range, was not until October 1976.

    Renault claimed 10% more power (49.3kW) and 13% more torque (103Nm) from the 1.4 motor. And in an era of rapidly rising inflation, the range priced from $5,398 (12 1.4, manual, sedan) to $6,570 (12 1.4 Special, automatic, station sedan) was considered a bargain in the realm of European cars in Australia.

    Another victim of ADR27A was the Renault 15/17 range. A final batch of Series 1 17TL and 17 Gordinis were imported for Australia prior to the introduction of 27A, with the revised Series 2 range not making the cut.

    Renault Australia stocks of the 16 and 17 models were sufficient to allow both models to sell though to late 1977 and early 1978. Though I hate to think of their inventory holding costs over that time.

    So, could ADR 27A be considered a success? With the benefit of hindsight, obviously yes, especially in conjunction with the various other emission rules over the last 40 years. At the time, it was normal for APP (Air Pollution Potential) alerts to be issued for city areas. I can't remember hearing one of those on the radio for many years...... And in terms of performance, cars today are so much better than even those immediate pre-27A offerings!
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