fuego crash test film
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Default fuego crash test film

    Do not crash your fuego.......
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZRX-MEQnjU

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  2. #2
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    We had a white one at home that looked just like that. Same kinks in the roof, the front was a bit more tree shaped.

    Chris did a better job than they did, he smashed the tailgate glass thats how hard he hit.
    David Cavanagh

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    You can literally see the exact moment the back of the engine closes the gap to the steering rack and shoves the whole steering column into the dummy's face.

    Its not a great bit of design - effectively puts the steering rack way inside the crumple zone...

    R25 was as bad if not worse.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pes9DJc4cCw

    Often thought it would be easy to put an R19 airbag in a Fuego, but with steering wheel "stability" as bad as it is, it would do more harm than good.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You could just get something fun to drive ..... Even though it was disigned in the last 60's it's probably as good as a renolt

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    ......and Fuego held the World record at one stage for most number of rollovers....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tAGo...yer_detailpage

    ....and I only discovered this footage after I had put 2 on their lids. They never put this info in the brochure but it would have been handy somewhere after the aerodynamic drag coefficient

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12vFuego View Post
    ......and Fuego held the World record at one stage for most number of rollovers....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tAGo...yer_detailpage

    ....and I only discovered this footage after I had put 2 on their lids. They never put this info in the brochure but it would have been handy somewhere after the aerodynamic drag coefficient
    And you probably hold the record for the most fuego's rolled.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Speaking of crashing, I decided I needed to blow the cobwebs out and white board some differentials this week. This led to transformations of Newton's laws of motion. I substituted for and eliminated the time variable to arrive at

    "acceleration = initial velocity ^2 / 2*stopping distance"

    for a final velocity of 0.

    Adding conversion constants for kph, m/s/s and G, I created a G Force calculator for my people at work. A few minutes ago I decided to code up a web page with the same code like I did for fuel consumption.

    If you want to see how many Gs the human body experiences when involved in a crash or heavy braking, try it.

    Gonz's Crash Calculator

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Ripper Gonz! I'm still trying all the variations before the drivers seat and my lanky legs in the Koleos become part of the problem! It's fun, so far!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    I've seen this footage before and been shocked by the lack of retention/stretch offered by the seatbelts.

    I'd be interested to know how it would do with modern pretensioners as the passenger cell retains it's shape quite well and on the underneath shot you can see the split chassis rails absorb a lot of energy as they fold up.

    Also a bit alarmed that the passenger seat collapses on the whip back but it looks like both front seats actually move forward on their runners during the collision.

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    I've seen this footage before and been shocked by the lack of retention/stretch offered by the seatbelts.

    I'd be interested to know how it would do with modern pretensioners as the passenger cell retains it's shape quite well and on the underneath shot you can see the split chassis rails absorb a lot of energy as they fold up.

    Also a bit alarmed that the passenger seat collapses on the whip back but it looks like both front seats actually move forward on their runners during the collision.


    Fuego's were pretty bloody good and this film shows it. Look at what else was around in its class back then.

    What year did the Fuego come out (1983) its 30 years old and everyone is shocked by the way it crumples, go back another 30 years to 1953. 30 years before that and we were driving Model T's and see how good the Fuego really is.

    To me, the only argument you can use when comparing old and new cars is safety. New cars really don't have much to offer over what was around in the 80's except safety.
    David Cavanagh

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    It's the steering column movement that freaks me out the most... Up under your chin, break your neck.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It sure is an interesting crash test... Note: It's not offset. In a modern day crash test where they offset the impact (which is apparently far more "real life") there would probably be nothing left of these 80's model cars.

    seeya,
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    The R25 test is offset - its not pretty...

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    It sure is an interesting crash test... Note: It's not offset. In a modern day crash test where they offset the impact (which is apparently far more "real life") there would probably be nothing left of these 80's model cars.

    seeya,
    Shane L

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    "It's the steering column movement that freaks me out the most... Up under your chin, break your neck."

    Both these tests are not real life situations.
    Tests involving objects that don't move produce certain results .
    Where would you sugest putting the steering rack?

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    Shane ,
    visit the wrecking yards and you can see how badly some current cars fair in accidents.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berridale View Post
    "It's the steering column movement that freaks me out the most... Up under your chin, break your neck."

    Both these tests are not real life situations.
    Tests involving objects that don't move produce certain results .
    Where would you sugest putting the steering rack?
    It's real enough, most decent hits will shift the engine back enough to shove the Fuegos rack back.

    The rack should be somewhere else - either the conventional spot down low where the engine will pass over it, or right up against the firewall up high.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Your Fuego problem is the length and layout of the engine-transmission assembly. It acts like a spear in a collision and is not deliberately deflected downwards like in the Rover 2000. The spear factor is probably why the industry has changed to east-west layouts.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Your Fuego problem is the length and layout of the engine-transmission assembly. It acts like a spear in a collision and is not deliberately deflected downwards like in the Rover 2000. The spear factor is probably why the industry has changed to east-west layouts.
    It's not that - the Fuego will send its drivetrain under the floor. It's just that the back of the engine "hooks" the rack after a small amount of movement and drags its back with it. Teh steering column does not collapse even remotely enough to compensate and the column attachments not even slightly stable enough. It's a poor design.

    If wanted to do up Fuego, I would look at seriously beefing up the steering column mounting under the dash with big reinforcements to hard parts of the chassis. And a steering column that was longer with extra universal joints that could collapse in a scissor like action if the rack came backwards.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    It's not that - the Fuego will send its drivetrain under the floor. It's just that the back of the engine "hooks" the rack after a small amount of movement and drags its back with it. Teh steering column does not collapse even remotely enough to compensate and the column attachments not even slightly stable enough. It's a poor design.

    If wanted to do up Fuego, I would look at seriously beefing up the steering column mounting under the dash with big reinforcements to hard parts of the chassis. And a steering column that was longer with extra universal joints that could collapse in a scissor like action if the rack came backwards.
    Could be redesigned easily with the collapsible tubing replacing a segment of the solid column, many modern cars have a diamond shape (cutouts) tubing to do exactly that, should be easy to adapt a suitable tube to be welded in place, but unfortunately it would be expensive as the welds and compression would need lab testing and cleared by engineering calculations to ensure the design worked without breaking down under normal driving conditions and losing directional control.

    All in all better to drive like I do, and not crash in the first place!! Tis an easy car to divert around danger as it reacts so well in response to the driver who knows how to drive them. Backing off speed round the apex of a curve seems to be the most likely reason for running off the road and striking a solid object like a pole or tree.

    Of the crashed Fuego's that I have collected and disassembled, LH front quarter panel damage is the most common reason, and of those none seem to have deformed through to the cabin or door sections - all damage confined to the area forward of the cabin, and the engine does scrape down under the car without deforming the transmission tunnel. I have a nice gold (sunburst) Fuego in the back yard (sans a few parts removed by Haakon) that demonstrates exactly that damage and write off demise.

    Regards

    Ken.

  20. #20
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Your Fuego problem is the length and layout of the engine-transmission assembly. It acts like a spear in a collision and is not deliberately deflected downwards like in the Rover 2000. The spear factor is probably why the industry has changed to east-west layouts.
    The reason for East-West engine-transmission is for space saving, so that you can have shorter bonnet. Nothing to do with the crash worthiness of the vehicle (like the mini).
    Regards Col

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    All the design really needs to be pretty good is something like this between the rack and the wheel.


    The problem is that the column is adjustable for height. Most modern cars have a uni near the wheel so it pivots close to the top of the column. In a Fuego, the entire column and the shaft within pivots from down near the pedals.

    To really solve the issue. You'd need to remove the adjustment mechanism/shaft casing and secure the steering shaft solidly up near the top bulkhead and in a rubber sleeve down low and then fit a teloscopic shaft like the one above between the two. The shaft allows 4 inches of compression by which time the rack would be hard up against the fire wall.

    Or you can just not crash....

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    The reason for East-West engine-transmission is for space saving, so that you can have shorter bonnet. Nothing to do with the crash worthiness of the vehicle (like the mini).
    And here was I quite convinced that an east-west engine spread a frontal impact over a much larger area than a north south unit.

    Quotes from a couple of sources :

    Transverse Mounted Engines

    Like the rest of Volvo's offerings, the S80 features a transversely installed engine and front-wheel drive. Transverse engine installation provides a controlled deformation zone in the engine compartment and helps reduce the risk of engine intrusion into the passenger compartment in a frontal collision. Even the new V8 is transversely installed thanks to its extremely compact dimensions and effective packaging.

    The Land Rover LR2 Freelander, along with all Volvo models from 1998 on (including V8 models), employ a transversely-mounted engine in order to increase passenger space inside the vehicle. This has also allowed for improved safety in a frontal impact, due to more front to back engine compartment space being created. The result is a larger front crumple zone.

    The following paper has some interesting information on transverse engine mounting for collisions, including the safety principles behind transverse engines:

    http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/...ext/150021.pdf
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  23. #23
    COL
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    I don't think engine orientation has much to do with safety as BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, Audi are still using the north-south arrangement.

    If it was the case every manufacturer would be using the same engine orientation.
    Regards Col

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    There is alot of contradictory information from various manufacturers highlighting the benefits of their drivetrain.

    It appears that a longitudinal engine is generally an easier design to submarine under the floor as the gearbox is already there and is generally a tapered shape that the engine will follow.

    Mercedes Benz went to the cost and trouble of making a sandwich design floor for their A Class and shaping and slanting the transverse drivetrain to ensure it would go under the car. It was obviously done for a reason but was expensive to implement as it meant it couldn't share engines and after 15 years it has now been dropped in the new A Class.

    It appears as though the flat and wide load path of a transverse engine/gearbox being pushed back against the firewall may be a better option once all the crumple zones have been used up, but if a longitudinal engine submarines properly then the effective crumple zone can probably be longer.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    ........It appears that a longitudinal engine is generally an easier design to submarine under the floor as the gearbox is already there and is generally a tapered shape that the engine will follow.
    A bit like trying to drag a broadaxe through a 2" pipe, handle first?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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