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Thread: 1063 5 speed gearbox

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    Member 61 Gordini's Avatar
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    Icon7 1063 5 speed gearbox

    Hi Everyone,

    Does anyone know or have information on the 5 speed gear box from a 1063 4cv.I am looking for technical info to show the breakdown of the box.

    Brett

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    Quote Originally Posted by 61 Gordini View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    Does anyone know or have information on the 5 speed gear box from a 1063 4cv.I am looking for technical info to show the breakdown of the box.

    Brett
    Be worth its weight in gold if you could find one, as an initial comment.

    There were several small production competition gearboxes made for the 4CV. The person who knows the most about this, at least in my circle of friends, is Jean-Pierre Delaunoy in France (www.webpiecesretro.com) and he might be able to give you some information. There will probably be at least one article somewhere in the excellent Gazolene magazine, in French of course.

    Some of us in the Renault 4CV Register have a fair bit of knowledge too, and some who know more than I do look at Aussiefrogs from time to time. You might consider a PM to BOB750 if he doesn't respond spontaneously. You'd better join the register if you haven't though!

    I have a 4CV gearbox apart on the bench at present (a 3-speed, not even 4, let alone 5) and there isn't much room to do the 5 speed option, that is for sure!

    To actually get either 5 speeds, or 4 with a longer diff ratio, takes you straight into pretty specialist territory. It can be done with R10 gearbox casings and other internals. Another Aussifrogs tadpole from Scotland does this professionally. It is a constant temptation....
    JohnW

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    As far as i know it was a crash box ,refered to as the Claude box or similar ,i remember being told byBenny at and a motors at crows nest that they had one for a long time under the bench that had blown up and had been replaced by a 3 speed, must have been a shock .so there was one in Australia but it would be long long gone ,i have a road test on a airodynamic 4cv special with a mid mount motor with one of these boxes ,i will see if i can find it, there were pictures of the engine and gearbox.PUGS

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    Here's a bit more from http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile...jet385312.htm:

    La R1063 : évolution sportive de la 4CV
    Elle est lancée officiellement par la régie en 1952. Les modifications touchent le moteur, la carrosserie, les trains roulants et la direction. Il y eut 80 modèles fabriqués par la régie. Toutes les pièces nécessaires à la transformation d'une 1062 étant disponibles dans les concessions Renault, de nombreux amateurs en construisirent. Des boites 4 vitesses DURIEZ ou 5 vitesses CLAUDE permettaient de mieux exploiter les possibilités du moteur.
    Dans cette configuration la 4CV remporta de nombreux succès dans sa catégorie : Monte-Carlo, Mille Milles, le Tour de France Auto, Liège-Rome-Liège, les 24 Heures du Mans, les 12 heures de Sebring, la course de côte du Ventoux
    JohnW

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    Member 61 Gordini's Avatar
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    Thats what i have been told that they were a dog box like a motor bike of sorts.I have one,it has been in my fathers shed so it is time to put it in my car to see what it is like,but i want to learn more about it technicaly speaking.
    I have downloaded the 4cv register form so i will contact them to see if someone has a breakdown of the internals.
    Back to the gearbox my father bought it off a guy who had it in a renault 8 but his wife did not like it so he put a standard box back in it and sold the box to my father.The guy originaly bought it from caravelle motor's (reno serve in those days).
    Thanks guys i hoped you would give me some direction on this.

    Brett

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    Quote Originally Posted by 61 Gordini View Post
    Thats what i have been told that they were a dog box like a motor bike of sorts.I have one,it has been in my fathers shed so it is time to put it in my car to see what it is like,but i want to learn more about it technicaly speaking.
    I have downloaded the 4cv register form so i will contact them to see if someone has a breakdown of the internals.
    Back to the gearbox my father bought it off a guy who had it in a renault 8 but his wife did not like it so he put a standard box back in it and sold the box to my father.The guy originaly bought it from caravelle motor's (reno serve in those days).
    Thanks guys i hoped you would give me some direction on this.

    Brett
    Hold on..... "I have one..."

    What exactly do you have??

    I'm not sure whether the Claude box was a genuine crash gearbox or a dog box (i.e. with constant mesh gears but no synchro, like an old Fiat 500) but if you really have one of them it is quite special.

    Perhaps some photos? It might have a little aluminium tag on it under a bolt head with a model number.

    Is it a split case box or a single case with a metal "sump" along the bottom?

    This might be really something, or not of course....

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    the pictures i refer to seemed to be of a 4cv 3 speed case with a pressed steel sump and that little pressed plate on one side on the top,as these cars were so light and produced little torque the gears could be made quite narrow not having syncro,i beleive they were fragile, just googled wickipedia under alpine 106 .It said that the 5 speed box was an option but cost 3/4 the cost of a complete car werent there some 8s made with the old style 4 speed box[dauphine gordini] non split case

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    No worry's, i won't be going to my fathers for a couple of weeks but i will take some pictures.I have been told that it was bolted onto the 1063 engine at Caravelle motors so i believe it is one.The guy at caravelle motors, his father new about it and he new my father had it,but he has passed away now.I will take some pics for you

    Brett

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    The box i have has the bracket on top for the tube that the 4cv has if you know what i mean.i was comparing today an 8 box,gordini box and the 5 speed.

    Brett

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    flip it over and remove the metal sump plate it should be chock a block with gears hopefuly with all the teeth on .if its the guenuine article its a very rare thing, the case with tubular mounting is 4 cv only i am pritty sure, i havent owned a 4 cv for 40 years PUGS

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    That's fantastic! There would have to have been one somewhere in AUS, given the Wheels road test back in 1956 of a five-speed 1063, and that Ira's advertised that orders could be placed for a 1063, even though they would have been eye-wateringly expensive for a 750 at the time.

    Also try having a look at the UK Classic Renault Owners forum, I'm sure someone on there was re-creating a 1063. http://renaultccc.proboards.com/
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    Thanks Guys for the info and the homework and i will get back to you with some pics

    Brett

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    Back in the early 1960's I got to know of a 4CV motor that had been rebuilt as an under 1000 cc perhaps 960 cc. I bought the head and cam shaft. The bores had had it and I could modify the sump so didn't get them. Being an apprentice I couldn't afford the 5 speed gearbox that was with it. Wish I had the opportunity now. A few years ago I helped pull one down to see if we could match the missing selectors from a 3/4 speed box, but couldn't. The cam shaft was so peaky that running it with a 3 speed was almost impossible. There are some details of the two brands that were on offer at the time, from memory a Claude and a some thing starting with F...... If Bob750 doesn't come good I'll find my notes. I think he has photos of one split.

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    Incidentally do a search on here. There was thread some time ago. I think it is since the big crash.

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    i have the article to hand ,its in the april 07 edition of classic and sports car,its about a streamlined bodied car called Eolia created by a successful industialist Andre Georges Claude whos firm Satecmo specialised in hot up gear for 4CV,says that the gearboxes were also built under licence by Jean Redel and rally partner Lois Pons ,COULD THIS BE THE OTHER BRAND ,the car was regoed for road use in 55 with a dry sumped twin cam version of a 750 4cv engine producing 75 bhp at 7500 being replaced in 58 by a wet sumped 845 dauphine engine producing 69 bhp at 6200rpmits calculated top speed was 104 mph i have a pic of the gearbox from the front end and it looks quite standard no spacer plate between the end case and main case like a 8g 5 speed ,so would appear all cogs are in the main case ,they say its a crash box ,will try to get some pics up PUGS

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    From What you have said it may indeed be a "claude box" and therefore very rare
    I know of only 1 in the UK, which belongs to Dave Wheeler who is building a 4cv Le Mans replica, he came across it by accident and did not know what it was untill he stripped it down, which made his day (if not year)
    He taught me most of what I know about Renault split case transaxles and he is probably one of the most knowlegible people on early transmissions, something I try to stay out of
    The best bet for getting hold of Dave is through the Renault classic car club forum in the UK he is"wheelersworkshop08" and he is never very far from the Modified v Standard debate
    cheers
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    I found a book with the 1063 4cv and it says that there were 70 factory built 1063 and an unkown number coversions built up from SAPRAR supplied kits.Also the name who built the gear box was ponds-Redele-Claude,sounds like 3 people and it says the box was built using a standard 4cv case.
    This is becoming extremly interesting now.

    Thanks Guys

    Brett

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    Quote Originally Posted by 61 Gordini View Post
    I found a book with the 1063 4cv and it says that there were 70 factory built 1063 and an unkown number coversions built up from SAPRAR supplied kits.Also the name who built the gear box was ponds-Redele-Claude,sounds like 3 people and it says the box was built using a standard 4cv case.
    This is becoming extremly interesting now.

    Thanks Guys

    Brett
    It is extraordinarily interesting, believe me!

    Some of us knew a car with this gearbox had been in Australia, as it was tested, but the rest seemed to be lost in the mists of time... Now you appear with the very gearbox. Wow.

    It might not be the most delightful thing to use I suspect, but what a find. Five-speed crash box with a less than charming remote linkage. But wow all the same...
    JohnW

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    I have recieved a reply from www.webpiecesretro.com and he has asked me to send internal & external pictures to verify the gear box.
    I just spoke to my father who said the same as you john,probaly not a nice box to use,and he believed it to have dog clutches instead

    of synchro's.It will be fun to have it in a car to drive at least.


    Brett

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    Back in he mists of time (mid 1970s) I owned a 1063 with what I thought was a 5 speed crash gearbox. It had been raced at various tracks in NSW, Orange, Dubbo, Warwick Farm in the late 50s into the early-60s and "Uncle" Len Cummine gave me picks of it racing as well but they have also gone the way of many things over the years. I sold the 1063 to Joe ????? in O'Connor ACT along with the three other 750s I had (he wanted and bought the lot as a job lot). I think Joe on-sold the lot to a bloke (whose name escapes me at the moment) who used to do back-yardies on mainly Renaults just around the corner from him. All the 750s were road registered and driveable when I sold them. Often wondered what happened to them; the 1063 was white, of the 'standard' 750s my daily driver dark blue over light blue, one red and the other white.
    FLASH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post
    Back in he mists of time (mid 1970s) I owned a 1063 with what I thought was a 5 speed crash gearbox. It had been raced at various tracks in NSW, Orange, Dubbo, Warwick Farm in the late 50s into the early-60s and "Uncle" Len Cummine gave me picks of it racing as well but they have also gone the way of many things over the years. I sold the 1063 to Joe ????? in O'Connor ACT along with the three other 750s I had (he wanted and bought the lot as a job lot). I think Joe on-sold the lot to a bloke (whose name escapes me at the moment) who used to do back-yardies on mainly Renaults just around the corner from him. All the 750s were road registered and driveable when I sold them. Often wondered what happened to them; the 1063 was white, of the 'standard' 750s my daily driver dark blue over light blue, one red and the other white.
    FLASH
    Mid 70s? Feels like only yesterday Flash!

    I'd been casually asking people for years, wondering what had happened to the car you must have owned. Amazing that the gearbox has surfaced.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by 61 Gordini View Post
    I have recieved a reply from www.webpiecesretro.com and he has asked me to send internal & external pictures to verify the gear box.
    I just spoke to my father who said the same as you john,probaly not a nice box to use,and he believed it to have dog clutches instead

    of synchro's.It will be fun to have it in a car to drive at least.


    Brett
    Ah, we are all looking forward to the photos!

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    I don't think the box i have is from that car as my father bought the box in 1969 in Geelong.

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    Found the page it shows a four speed box from Fapram before Renault bought out their own 4 speed.


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    Note the other two boxes had no reverse and I think that is correct when we took the 5 speed box to bits. There was no space for reverse. I have a document in French that explains how to take the bits out of an R5 Alpine 5 speed box and fit them to an R8 or R10 box. It has mostly photo's and is pretty straight forward. Problem is to find an Alpine box. Alain offered me one for 500 EUR plus postage once.

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