R8 & R8G differences
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! JodieK's Avatar
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    Default R8 & R8G differences

    Can those of you with way more knowledge than me (as in, everyone else) describe what to look for that differentiates a Gordini body shell apart from a standard R8. We are not considering the bolt on panels, just the bare shell. Something Simon said in another thread has me curious.
    Thanks, PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by JodieK View Post
    Something Simon said in another thread has me curious.
    If that refers to me, which bit was it? It may be easier to answer a specific query rather than waste bandwith with superfluous info.
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    It does refer to you Simon, but I am also interested in any superfluous info.

    You mentioned the R8G had three upper dash mounting bolts, yet the R8 (early) did not. Could you clarify this please as Jodie will read into it and start thinking we may have a Gordini.
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    It depends what you mean by dash mounting bolts. There are four nuts holding the steel dash to the bulkhead on captive bolts, plus a couple of bolts at the sides. This is the same for all R8s. In a nutshell, if this is the early "step-roof" R1130 body that I'm recalling, it is pretty easy to say it isn't an 8G bodyshell.
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    I was going to say, I thought wayne's old car started life as an 1130 - therefore not a Gordini shell, but I couldn't quite remember.
    Have you been able to locate any diamond or oval plates JodieK or a chassis number? On the later R8's, the chassis number is stamped on the floorpan next to the drivers seat in between that and the sill that we were discussing the covers for.
    KB
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    Member dauphproto's Avatar
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    This is a bit of a minefield but here goes
    1100 Gords have a standard R8 shell The flying L rear quarter trim type type
    They have a grab handle on the passenger side A pillar
    They also have the additional rear stretcher bar behind the engine mounting points and the engine mounting cradle is double skinned
    The front crossmember usually has a stiffner bar fitted and the rear gearbox crossmember is double skinned
    1300 Gords are more complex I personally do not believe in the "Gord" shell thing it is probably the "Poor roads" bodyshell with additions. Poor roads shells went to South Africa and may have turned up in Australia as well due to the terrain and size of the country where cars had to put in mileages unheard of in europe
    I say this because my own car is an 1100 but has all the 1300 improvements leading me to believe it was reshelled due to accident damage when nearly new. 1300s have all the bits 1100's have plus the steering rack mounts are reinforced and the front anti roll bar mounts are so treated there is more steel in the chassis where the front and rear suspension crossmembers fit (which you will only see when you cut it open ) and there are gusset plates outside between the scuttle and the A post and the roof corners are reinforced
    Basically a 1300 G is about 50-60 kg heavier than an R8 and half of that is in the shell
    My 8G is 50 kg heavier than Liz's R8 but has the same engine,box brakes etc
    European G's also had the cold countries heater matrix which is double the thickness of an R8 one which would probably be no use whatsoever in Australia,but is damned usefull in Scotland !!!
    That has started the debate let's see what other details appear from country to country
    cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    I was going to say, I thought wayne's old car started life as an 1130 - therefore not a Gordini shell, but I couldn't quite remember.
    Have you been able to locate any diamond or oval plates JodieK or a chassis number? On the later R8's, the chassis number is stamped on the floorpan next to the drivers seat in between that and the sill that we were discussing the covers for.
    KB
    KB, we have the shell back to metal and have not found any ID other than the diamond plate (R1130), but that can be changed at the drop of a hat. As Simon pointed out, it is a 'Step Roof' so thus not Gordini. I was more curious to see what the differences are now that I have seen every part of the car. What makes it harder is that this vehicle seems to have some of the extra bits, that I now assume to be part of the 'poor road' pack, and lots of added in bits from its rally days.

    I guess the main thing was for me to be 100% sure this shell is only standard, as if it turned out to be something more we would have to alter our plans for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dauphproto View Post
    European G's also had the cold countries heater matrix which is double the thickness of an R8 one which would probably be no use whatsoever in Australia,but is damned usefull in Scotland !!!
    That has started the debate let's see what other details appear from country to country
    cheers
    For Australia the R1134 G was a full import, and identical Version 70 specification as the UK spec cars.

    The R1135 was a locally assembled car for Australia, and was the "poor roads RHD" Version 800 specification. Only 60 were originally assembled and sold here, and 418 blue was not available as a colour. Local paint, glass (apart from the laminated screen), local black vinyl trim and local Ford Falcon front armrests were used, also the dashboard was painted crackle black instead of the crackle grey of the French build cars.

    The "poor roads" R8 (R1130 & R1132) and 10 sold here didn't have the upper and lower A-pillar reinforcements, or the stiffeners in the front wheel arch. Also not fitted was the reinforcement for the anti-roll bar bracket, or the reinforced upper wishbones of the 8G. But they did get the tubular front crossmember stiffener, the double skin engine crossmember, and the later R10s got the body reinforcement above the rear crossmember.

    One common R1135 thing though was the extreme cold spec heater. And as you say it really does work well, even if the coldest outside temp my car has so far experienced was 2 degrees Celcius.

    Just an addition, the local assembly parts such as the local side and rear glass and local front armrests were phased in through the assembly life of the 8G in Australia. Thus the early cars had the least local content, and the latest cars had the greatest.
    Last edited by Simon; 31st October 2012 at 12:07 AM.
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    R8G
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    Everyone is Australia has at one time or another owned a R8 Gordini. They aren't that special.

    /endsarcasm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    For Australia the R1134 G was a full import, and identical Version 70 specification as the UK spec cars.

    The R1135 was a locally assembled car for Australia, and was the "poor roads RHD" Version 800 specification. Only 60 were originally assembled and sold here, and 418 blue was not available as a colour. Local paint, glass (apart from the laminated screen), local black vinyl trim and local Ford Falcon front armrests were used, also the dashboard was painted crackle black instead of the crackle grey of the French build cars.

    The "poor roads" R8 (R1130 & R1132) and 10 sold here didn't have the upper and lower A-pillar reinforcements, or the stiffeners in the front wheel arch. Also not fitted was the reinforcement for the anti-roll bar bracket, or the reinforced upper wishbones of the 8G. But they did get the tubular front crossmember stiffener, the double skin engine crossmember, and the later R10s got the body reinforcement above the rear crossmember.

    One common R1135 thing though was the extreme cold spec heater. And as you say it really does work well, even if the coldest outside temp my car has so far experienced was 2 degrees Celcius.

    Just an addition, the local assembly parts such as the local side and rear glass and local front armrests were phased in through the assembly life of the 8G in Australia. Thus the early cars had the least local content, and the latest cars had the greatest.
    Hi Simon,

    Appropos the suspension, and relating to my parallel shock absorber thread, do you know what is going on with different length Konis? If the mounting points are in the same place, the wishbones the same length and the stub axle component unchanged in length between ball joints, the only way to need or use a shorter shock absorber is in greater rubber buffer length above and below the cross member or changes to the lower shock absorber mount that fastens onto lower the wishbone.

    Do you know what is going on? I know of things being reinforced but thought the geometry was the same except for shorter, stiffer coil springs.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    arnt that special are you referring to the cars or the owners ,are the paint colours Gordini specific .PUGS

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    arnt that special are you referring to the cars or the owners ,are the paint colours Gordini specific .PUGS
    Yes. The colours were specific to Gordini's (at least in the ones we got). I think there were two blues and a yellow in amongst the colours we got. If I got my trivia right, we got 40 blue cars and 20 yellow ones. There was also the lighter blue colour that we didn't get but some of the local cars have been restored in that colour. I think the names are 318; Cannes Blue and Daffodil yellow, with the third colour we didnt' get French Racing blue - but if I got it wrong, no doubt the Gordinisti will jump on me : )
    KB

    Ps - Jase must be referring to the owners! I'm assuming he means that everyone you talk to has either owned one, or knows someone who has. A bit like Mini Cooper S's - of the 7000 odd Cooper S's that were made, 21000 still exist.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Do you know what is going on?
    No idea really, questions involving non-standard stuff or custom mods make my brain hurt. I'm going to have to do some work thinking about this one, instead of a casual off the top of head comment, and get back.
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    No idea really, questions involving non-standard stuff or custom mods make my brain hurt. I'm going to have to do some work thinking about this one, instead of a casual off the top of head comment, and get back.
    Thanks Simon.

    This is what ought to be standard stuff I thought, but obviously I'm wrong. There must be something in the standard R8 versus R8G front suspension that I've never been aware of.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by R8G View Post
    Everyone is Australia has at one time or another owned a R8 Gordini. They aren't that special.

    /endsarcasm
    If only....
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    Yes. The colours were specific to Gordini's (at least in the ones we got).
    Depends how specific you want to get :-). Cannes Blue (used on the first two Australian Gordini 1300 batches) was the same shade as used on BMC Mini/Morris 1100/Austin 1800. Moyen Blue (used on the second two batches) was used on the VF Valiant. Daffodil Yellow (used on the final two batches) was used on the HK Monaro GTS, VF Valiant, HC Hillman Hunter & MGB. The French 418 blue was only available on the full import R1134 Gordini 1100.

    As for specialness of owners, I'm certainly not special, just obnoxious. And just to demonstrate how special my poor 8G isn't, it has decided to go out in protest with a drippy water pump, and it still has the dent it got three years ago.
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    LOL - yes I meant specific to Renault R8's and R8G's.

    that'll teach me to try and be smart answering Gordini questions.
    KB


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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    No idea really, questions involving non-standard stuff or custom mods make my brain hurt. I'm going to have to do some work thinking about this one, instead of a casual off the top of head comment, and get back.
    Here might be the answer regarding the difference in front shock absorber lengths, with thanks to BOB750. A later R10 parts book showing a lower mounting bracket extended vertically to allow for a shorter shock absorber. Maybe the R8 Gordinis had this bracket? Why? I guess we'll never know.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R8 & R8G differences-r10-shock-mount.jpg  
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    There is the possibility that because the G had lowered suspension/shorter coils, that a matching shorter damper was considered necessary, therefore the different lower mounting bracket to compensate. Maybe!

    Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    There is the possibility that because the G had lowered suspension/shorter coils, that a matching shorter damper was considered necessary, therefore the different lower mounting bracket to compensate. Maybe!

    Henry
    Hi Henry,

    The thing is that just shortening the coil spring, as was done, doesn't of itself change the range of suspension movement at all. So it shouldn't change the shock absorber dimensions even 1 mm. All that changes is the rest position.

    The extended lower mounts would accomodate a shorter shock absorber. Maybe it saves a tiny bit of unsprung weight in the shocker body, but I'd have thought that negligible.

    Cheers

    John
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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    It could have been something as simple as a supply issue at the time, the longer shocker not available so a shorter shocker was used and a different mounting bracket made up so car production didn't grind to a halt...it's plausable
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    That's the most likely explanation actually. Cock up wins over planning or conspiracy!

    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    It could have been something as simple as a supply issue at the time, the longer shocker not available so a shorter shocker was used and a different mounting bracket made up so car production didn't grind to a halt...it's plausable
    JohnW

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    From someone with NO knowledge of Renaults.. is it possible that the Gordini shocks are uprated over the standard ones and in saying that, Renault found it more cost efective to use an 'off the shelf' shock with revised bracket rather than fork out to have heavier duty shocks made to accomodate the standard lower mount.
    PK
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodieK View Post
    From someone with NO knowledge of Renaults.. is it possible that the Gordini shocks are uprated over the standard ones and in saying that, Renault found it more cost efective to use an 'off the shelf' shock with revised bracket rather than fork out to have heavier duty shocks made to accomodate the standard lower mount.
    PK
    Possibly, but the mounting eye on the base of the shocker is exactly the same, just the overall length and stroke different. A couple of comments on availability (easy to change the bracket and keep production going) and getting the shocker sitting in the middle of its range for the lowered suspension in the Gordini make sense to me.
    JohnW

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  25. #25
    R8G
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    As for specialness of owners, I'm certainly not special, just obnoxious. And just to demonstrate how special my poor 8G isn't, it has decided to go out in protest with a drippy water pump, and it still has the dent it got three years ago.
    I'm being facetious, and my 8G still has the gouge in the bonnet where the neighbours dog jumped on it and the ding in the boot lid where the alternator fan blade/pulley broke last year and got flung upwards at 7500rpm.

    I look forward to retirement when I can rebuild the car, by then though retirement age will be 85...

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