Laguna 2 in trouble
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Laguna 2 in trouble

    Has anyone out there had a similar problem with a Laguna 2 V6? Driving along happily the other side of Cooma on cruise control and the engine cut out. We came to a stop and when I tried to start the engine it started as if nothing was wrong. It did the same thing, this time without cruise control, another 5 times before we got to Bega. Next couple of days there was no problem until we got off the freeway in Melbourne and it cut out again. After that in stop-start traffic it did it several times again or lost power and started to backfire. After a few seconds the problem cleared and we were able to continue the journey. As with most intermittent faults I suspect that it is going to be hard, and probably expensive, to track down. Anyone else had a similar experience?

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    There aren't many things that will stop a car dead, as opposed to make it stumble and struggle. Have you checked the absolute basics - battery terminals, charging voltage, battery health (on a load tester)?

    Is the fault light or message on? If not, the fault is probably "upstream" of components whose performance is monitored relative to specific values. What kind of weather was it, each time? Was the AC working? Night or day?

    Is there any chance the car has been detailed at a dealership in the last while (hence the engine compartment may have received strong cleaners and pressure washing)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    Has anyone out there had a similar problem with a Laguna 2 V6? Driving along happily the other side of Cooma on cruise control and the engine cut out. We came to a stop and when I tried to start the engine it started as if nothing was wrong. It did the same thing, this time without cruise control, another 5 times before we got to Bega. Next couple of days there was no problem until we got off the freeway in Melbourne and it cut out again. After that in stop-start traffic it did it several times again or lost power and started to backfire. After a few seconds the problem cleared and we were able to continue the journey. As with most intermittent faults I suspect that it is going to be hard, and probably expensive, to track down. Anyone else had a similar experience?
    I suspect a restricted fuel problem, have you had the tank line fuel filter changed occasionally, and the tank breathing vapour line checked, it apparently kinks and collapses where it passes over the wheel arch,and the tank collapses as the vacummn increases during travel, starving the engine of fuel.

    Does this happen when you have a full tank of fuel, or only when below half full, quick test to see if vaccumn build up is happenning is to leave the tank cap off (some say drill a relief hole in the plastic tank cap) My Laguna runs well with a drilled hole in cap fix - your choice of course to do the job properly if that is the problem.

    There was a fuel contamination problem 12 months or more back, where a synthetic oil got into fuel and when burned this contaminated the catalyc converters in the exhaust system and their ability to pass exhaust gases effectively. I haven't ever experienced that in the Laguna, but had the problem in a Camry which was fortunately much cheaper to replace... came on like fuel starvation, especially once it warmed up, starting was not a problem.

    Thats all I can think of at this time, hope you pin point the problem without too much cost as the dealer clip will not show up the tank problem it seems as it takes time to manifest itself. Give your wiring and looms a visual check for anything that might cause and intermittent electrical short.

    The whole system seems very sensitive to voltage drops, when our left hand rear indicator blew globes due to a faulty tail light connector, the cruise control would drop out when you operated the left turn signal, took a bit to suss out the relationship, once the connection was fixed no more troubles, though the cruise drops out for no apparent reason on occasions.


    Ken

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    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Ken, didn't you have to replace the fuel pump?

    Could cause intermittent and instant engine shut down.
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    It almost always triggers one or two faults, one for the mixture being out of range and quite frequently a "temporary short" on the forward oxygen sensor as the exhaust down pipe heats up rapidly in the engine's lean condition and the sensor is possibly shorted by loosened carbon in the gases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman View Post
    Ken, didn't you have to replace the fuel pump?

    Could cause intermittent and instant engine shut down.
    Yes I did, however the actual problem was the vaccumn sucking up the floor of the tank, and when I drove/surfed over one of those speed humps at Avalon airfield with my adult son sitting in the back seat, the bump pushed the base of the pump upwards (as it is designed to move) but it jammed sideways and the pressure caused a small crack in the fuel pump (where it sits under the back seat on the drivers side of the Laguna) I suspect this small crack let petrol vapour reach the pump electrical connector and a month or so later the whole unit top was cracked as the vapour flashed - full story on a previous thread) there were signs of sooty marks to indicate that is what happenned, I did a temporary repair and got a secondhand unit from Dave Cavanagh and fixed that problem and the small hole in the spare petrol tank cap eliminated the problem from the collapsed vapour release line that goes to a charcoal type filter at the front passenger side of the tank.

    I have sourced a new line, but it is working so well on the temp fix, I tend to leave things alone when they are running well, Murphy's law and all that, plus the damn car is always in use..... plus old age, procrastination and retirement syndrome - no spare time anymore!!

    Ken.

    Mind you the same tank problem occurred when it was under dealer warranty and it was claimed to be fixed by adjustment to the tank fill, unit as other symptoms were rough jerky running on a low tank and the capacity and how many km to next tank fill also went out of whack apparently due to the reduced capacity.

    Mind you on a Ford Police vehicle I had the reverse happen as the plastic tank expanded so much the tank filler tube poked out of the back of the car, and the tank itself resembled a round ball in shape as it could not release vapour buildup on a hot day on the drive from Benalla to Echuca. I'm glad though I didn't try to release that cap!!

    Ken

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    ....Driving along happily ....and the engine cut out.
    Did the tacho/dash gauges die too??.


    Jo

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    Thank you for the suggestions. I have not noticed whether the dash guages fail as well. I will pay more attention next time. The fuel issue is an interesting suggestion because I put some petrol into the car at Corryong, a small country town in NE Victoria, and then noticed that the car seemed to be working harder than usual on the hills along the Alpine Way. We also got some very abrupt and jerky changes from 3rd to 4th, which is not typical for the auto as it changes up. Fuel contamination did cross my mind, especially when we filled up in Bega and the problem did not reoccur for a while. Can water in fuel cause these symptoms? At least our Clio is behaving itself very well, as it usually does.

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    Icon3 Laguna II V6 rough running engine.. some thoughts..!

    Hope you sorted out the problem, the other week my wife drove back from the country and topped up fuel on the way, and when she got back, I drove her and friend to a concert in the city, and on the way I noticed that the engine seemed to have developed a miss and it got so bad near home, that I was imagining all sorts of problems.

    Anyway because I knew one front coil hadn't been changed recently, I swapped it for a new generic one, and when I went to pick them up in the city, the Laguna drove well until it reached operating temperature, and then the miss in the engine returned.

    I had to leave for the country the next day, but decided that I would change all the front coils over, rang Ken Bailey and he got some in for me ASAP, as it seemed that while it ran o.k. when the coils were cold, they failed when hot, and they get very hot in position under the engine cover.

    Changed over to the three new coils and hoped that would fix the problem, but on the outskirts of Melbourne the miss returned, but I was able to complete the journey, and the car was o.k. for short runs around my destination, on the way back to Melbourne eventually, the miss got progressively worse so at Heathcote it was really shuddering and I needed fuel anyway, so stopped at the new Caltex and got $60 worth of 98 Ron.

    As I drove out of the service station, the engine ran sweet and remained that way for the rest of the journey back to Melbourne and has been o.k. since. I am guessing that my wife got some crook fuel and the near full tank of 98 cleared the problem, I will know more when the tank gets down a bit, if the problem returns or not.

    Anyway, the thoughts that were coming up as possibilities, were the possibility of fuel pump trouble again, or that the quick warm up thermostat, might be failing shut again (had two thermostats fail shut) and engine did seem to be running hot (though not on the temp gauge as it did last time) and it does shudder a bit when that happens or that the rear bank of expensive coils had started to fail after a long period of trouble free running.

    Because I don't really have any spare time to fix anything myself I had resolved to put the car in for a diagnosis on the Clip to see if we could quickly narrow down the problem and get it fixed as I probably wont be doing any driving for the next two months due to my own running repairs..

    Anyway fingers crossed that crook petrol was the problem and it keeps running o.k. for the next few months.

    Anyway hope yours is going o.k. time for an update !

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 8th November 2012 at 01:51 AM.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the tale of your last saga with your misfiring Laguna. I also tend to assume that I have a dud coil if the engine develops a misfire but his time it was different as I have never had a coil problem that caused the engine to stall. The engine simply continues to operate roughly and without its normal power. Since I posted the thread I have used the car in Melbourne traffic and on Cup Day we went on a quick trip to Darnum on the Princes Hwy without the car missing a beat. We have filled up several times with 98RON so if that was the problem then the dodgy fuel may be so dilluted that it is no longer a problem. I also drilled a hole in the petrol cap, as was suggested, to give the tank an extra vent. The Laguna 2 is a lovely car to drive, when all is going well, but it would have to rate as the most unreliable Renault I have owned in recent years. The overall prize of unreliabilty would have to go to my first car - a 1956 Fregate R1101 that spent more time in our garage than on the road but was still one classy car!

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    Yep despite all that, I kinda like the car. Now if only the focus was on owner managment with a user friendly diagnosis clip included with the car, so we could detect and isolate problems ourselves, with the choice then to DIY or be lazy and get your friendly convenient and willing local Renault agent to fix the specific fault at a competitive price (actually parts pricing is pretty good when benchmarked against other imported and local cars) this could really open up markets for the company i.e. in country areas where Renault specialists are few in number.

    Might tap into the natural Australian inquisitive nature, where we like to know more about our cars too.

    I miss the opportunity to insist on getting a set of factory manuals with each car that I bought in the past, would be nice to get back to that informed buyer status of confidence - but then I'm just musing - hope your Laguna keeps doing the right thing..

    Ken

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Yep despite all that, I kinda like the car. Now if only the focus was on owner managment with a user friendly diagnosis clip included with the car, so we could detect and isolate problems ourselves, with the choice then to DIY or be lazy and get your friendly convenient and willing local Renault agent to fix the specific fault at a competitive price (actually parts pricing is pretty good when benchmarked against other imported and local cars) this could really open up markets for the company i.e. in country areas where Renault specialists are few in number.

    Might tap into the natural Australian inquisitive nature, where we like to know more about our cars too.

    I miss the opportunity to insist on getting a set of factory manuals with each car that I bought in the past, would be nice to get back to that informed buyer status of confidence - but then I'm just musing - hope your Laguna keeps doing the right thing..

    Ken
    Hi Ken

    The car manufacturers don't want you doing that because they don't make any money that way.

    Unfortunately you need to pay the huge $$$$ to get a clip for post 2000 cars or an XR25 for cars between 1985 and 2000 for our beloved Renaults.
    Regards Col

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fregate View Post
    Thanks for the tale of your last saga with your misfiring Laguna. I also tend to assume that I have a dud coil if the engine develops a misfire but his time it was different as I have never had a coil problem that caused the engine to stall. The engine simply continues to operate roughly and without its normal power. Since I posted the thread I have used the car in Melbourne traffic and on Cup Day we went on a quick trip to Darnum on the Princes Hwy without the car missing a beat. We have filled up several times with 98RON so if that was the problem then the dodgy fuel may be so dilluted that it is no longer a problem. I also drilled a hole in the petrol cap, as was suggested, to give the tank an extra vent. The Laguna 2 is a lovely car to drive, when all is going well, but it would have to rate as the most unreliable Renault I have owned in recent years. The overall prize of unreliabilty would have to go to my first car - a 1956 Fregate R1101 that spent more time in our garage than on the road but was still one classy car!
    I've just replaced the coil on my car too. Precautionary change over as the original is now 48 years old and working perfectly, but I wanted a higher voltage spark.

    I really struggle with this electrical unreliability nonsense. Why do you guys put up with it? I really enjoy my Renaults (and other French devices) but they have to go when required and stop when required.
    JohnW

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