R10 extractor design..
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Thread: R10 extractor design..

  1. #1
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Default R10 extractor design..

    Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a design for extractors for street use with a standard sierra 1.4l?

    I am after pipe sizes, primary and secondary length etc., I can do the rest.

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    It seems 4-2-1 is the go but I am open to suggestions.

    Thanks in advance..

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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    you need to read the thread where someone wanted some extractors for an R8 and the thread progressed into a design experiment for making some extractors for my 1397 (which still hasn't been done yet). In the end, I supplied my cam specs to Frans, and he used his spreadsheet to do the necessary calcs. Try searching for r8 extractors in the wanted section.
    KB


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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Thanks KB,...got that, it's a start..

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...=r8+extractors

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    Hi,
    That thread may say all there is to know. Graham Alexander Bell writes a good book and is worth reading for any wannabe car enthusiest. Real hard facts and information. I wish I had it lots of years ago.

    However I might add this from my, possibly outdated knowlege. If you want a street set of extractors for a standard or lightly modified car for road use, it may be better to not listen too hard to people who are racing or obsessive about power.

    My suggestion is to go for the minimum sized pipes recommended and the longer lengths recommended. This will give good mid range torque and not restrict the top end noticably. Even a 4 into 1 will work well too. Same length as the primary+ secondary. May be easier to bend up with the smaller pipes and less collectors to make.

    Might make a sweet street car which you do not have to flog to enjoy.

    My . Jaahn

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Had a bit of a fiddle with some 32 O.D. pressure pipe and a heat gun to see what I could come up with. My local exhaust guy says if I make some samples he can bend the pipes for me therefore limiting The amount of welds I need.

    I've decided on a 4 into 1 with 32mm pipes and 780 long primary (reckon I have them within 20mm of each other).

    Let's hope the finished product is a little pretty-er.... Comments welcome.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 extractor design..-043.jpg   R10 extractor design..-002.jpg  
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 25th September 2012 at 09:42 AM.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Nice, go for it. Are you going to buy bends and join them?

    Frans
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    No I have a local exhaust guy to bend them up in one piece to my samples.

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    They're not mandrel bends just press bends but I doubt it will make much difference to my needs...

    The exhaust guy bent them for me and they only needed a little tweeking from me to make them fit properly.

    I made some 10mm header plates from the web of an RSJ, bored the 32mm holes with a garden variety 'Sutton' hole saw in a press drill using plenty of oil for lubrication and it worked a treat.

    The collector cone is a little big and will require some surgery to make it fit before I start welding.

    To be continued....









    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails R10 extractor design..-025.jpg   R10 extractor design..-003.jpg   R10 extractor design..-008.jpg   R10 extractor design..-012.jpg   R10 extractor design..-024.jpg  
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 29th September 2012 at 08:56 PM.

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    You know if you get bored when you finish those off you can make me a set and I'm sure a few others might be asking as well, then if you really get bored I know of this red Floride that needs finishing as the owner is away working and needs it done.
    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    You know if you get bored when you finish those off you can make me a set and I'm sure a few others might be asking as well, then if you really get bored I know of this red Floride that needs finishing as the owner is away working and needs it done.
    I was going to suggest series production too! At the least is there some way to record some exact dimensions and shapes somehow?

    Nice work, speaking as a complete amateur in exhausts.
    JohnW

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    You both should know at this point that I don't come cheap.....


    p.s. JW I have actually recorded the sizes and shapes with my plastic prototype and may be persuaded to lend it out.
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 29th September 2012 at 08:42 PM.

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    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    That looks really good. It will be better than you think and you will have some extra hp without extra costs.

    You got this far so have you thought about the twin sidedraught inlet manifold based on exactly the same principle?

    Frans
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    You both should know at this point that I don't come cheap.....


    p.s. JW I have actually recorded the sizes and shapes with my plastic prototype and may be persuaded to lend it out.


    That's great. I don't want them myself, but it looks so good others might well.

    Thanks, and thanks for sharing the information. I reckon they look really good.
    JohnW

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Hi Frans,

    Sidedraughts aren't something I have as yet considered but if I saw some going for the right price I would be tempted..

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    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    As much as these will work a lot better than the cast iron exhaust system. The lengths are a considerable bit different, I would say at least 200mm, compared to your 20mm on the plastic ones. Pity you are not able to cut and join, to get them more equal.

    I also think that #1 will inter fear with the suspension arm.
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Thanks Ray,

    I will run a tape over them tomorrow and report back.

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    Icon14 Good work !!

    Hi,
    That's great work 59 Floride. We checked the length by blowing a note down them but my friend could play the trumpet. Good to see someone av'n a go. Brings back memories of the GOOD OLD DAYS.

    This is surley blasfamous but have you considered twin SUs for a reasonable alternative. I am sure there are thousands out there on dead BMC rubbish just waiting to be reused. Plenty of scope to tinker also THey will run OK with not much tuning and even better if you get them spot on.

    Jaahn

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    Graham, Frans has suggested the side draught and I was wondering last year when you drove my floride, was there that much difference between our two florides as I didn't drive yours to compare. They have the same motor a 1397 but you have stock inlet and outlet where mine had the extractors and side draught.
    And before you say it, yes I know yours looks shit better at the moment.
    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    Graham, Frans has suggested the side draught and I was wondering last year when you drove my floride, was there that much difference between our two florides as I didn't drive yours to compare. They have the same motor a 1397 but you have stock inlet and outlet where mine had the extractors and side draught.
    And before you say it, yes I know yours looks shit better at the moment.
    Even though I only drove your car around the block it did seem smoother and reved out nicer, so there is a noticable difference between the two.


    P.S. I'd be more than happy to swap a new set of extractors for a set of side draughts....eh buddy?
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 30th September 2012 at 11:44 AM.

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geckoeng View Post
    As much as these will work a lot better than the cast iron exhaust system. The lengths are a considerable bit different, I would say at least 200mm, compared to your 20mm on the plastic ones. Pity you are not able to cut and join, to get them more equal.

    I also think that #1 will inter fear with the suspension arm.

    Ray,

    I measured each pipe individually with a piece of rubber hose and the lengths are as follows..

    1. 860
    2. 880
    3. 800
    4. 780

    So not perfectly tuned but will have to do as I am trying to work within my limited skill level..metal fab isn't exactly my forte. I may be able to fiddle with 2 and 4 to even them out a bit.
    Last edited by 59 Floride; 30th September 2012 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Even though I only drove your car around the block it did seem smoother and reved out nicer, so there is a noticable difference between the two.


    P.S. I'd be more than happy to swap a new set of extractors for a set of side draughts....eh buddy?
    I just bought a 40 DCOE Weber over here only as I got it cheap and dont really need it that much, but I don't have a manifold spare but if you just want the Weber in exchange, call me.
    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Ray,

    I measured each pipe individually with a piece of rubber hose and the lengths are as follows..

    1. 860
    2. 880
    3. 800
    4. 780

    So not perfectly tuned but will have to do as I am trying to work within my limited skill level..metal fab isn't exactly my forte. I may be able to fiddle with 2 and 4 to even them out a bit.
    Nice DIY. Glad I'm not the only one who cuts metal with wood tools.
    When you are measuring press bend pipes of various ID, does that sort of cancel out any accuracy in actual measured lenght???
    Put another way, does the increased velocity of the smaller section effect the calculations of length??

    Jo

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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Nice DIY. Glad I'm not the only one who cuts metal with wood tools.
    When you are measuring press bend pipes of various ID, does that sort of cancel out any accuracy in actual measured lenght???
    Put another way, does the increased velocity of the smaller section effect the calculations of length??

    Jo
    Jo,

    I guess the answer to that would be, yes it would affect overall tuning but I'm not skilled up enough to be chasing the nth degree of performance from a set of extractors.

    So far these have cost me $16 for the prototype and $85 for the bent pipes and collector so is a good cheap way to learn these things...

    What ever the outcome it will be a big improvement on the exhaust system I currently have.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    Jo,

    I guess the answer to that would be, yes it would affect overall tuning but I'm not skilled up enough to be chasing the nth degree of performance from a set of extractors.

    So far these have cost me $16 for the prototype and $85 for the bent pipes and collector so is a good cheap way to learn these things...

    What ever the outcome it will be a big improvement on the exhaust system I currently have.
    Thats a very respectable build budget.
    My fuego pipes cost about $70 for the manifold flange plate then roughly $700 for someone to build them from scratch.


    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post

    I guess the answer to that would be, yes it would affect overall tuning but I'm not skilled up enough to be chasing the nth degree of performance from a set of extractors.
    You could fill them with sand and measure the difference.
    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

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