Ultimate 205 GTi
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  1. #1
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    Default Ultimate 205 GTi

    Hey all,

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    I'm wondering if we can get a consensus on what the ultimate road going 205 GTi (track car could be another thread) should have. Im thinking everything. Brake discs and pad brands. Suspension setup. Oil used. Filters. Spark plugs. All service parts. Basically what brands have people had success with and would be keen to promote.

    I bought my 205 over a year ago and havent really touched it yet. I do want to make it my daily driver and make it the best it can be.

    So lets make a list!

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Complete factory/showroom floor/museum standard i think ...i mean i would like!

    ...but I too am curious also

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Factory is pretty much the best.

    Fresh suspension bushes, links and dampers. By now the rear beam will need rebuilding. New bearings and trailing arm shafts there.

    A shorter gear set/ratios would be fun and a stiffer rear beam mounting kit would be something I would fit too. Other than that its pretty much standard.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    My 205Gti is Series 1. My ideal would be to have it in excellent original conditions with some engine work to get around 150hp, Quaiff diff, shorter final drive and improve some of the gear ratios a little (money and Minister for War and Finance permitting).

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    Fellow Frogger! SilverGTi_6's Avatar
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    Def Quaife Diff...and GTi6 engine
    Lotus Evora
    Peugeot 308 GTi
    1966 Volvo 122s
    Clio Sport Cup 182

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    Lotus Sport 111, C4 VTS, RCZ, 205 GTi, Volvo C30 T5-R, Honda S2000, 206 GTi180, Lotus Elise 111R, 205 GTi 6, Manual 406 coupe, 306 GTi 6, 405 MI16 (twice!), 505 GR

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Stock and original... You ll find this is also the reason that untouched cars in original condition fetch the best money... there are a couple of things i would prefer improved ie.gearing... and interior rattles removed... Otherwise stock is perfect... changing things to much takes away from the character. As an 80s hot hatch the car represents "perfection"... no other hatch of the era can touch it in its original guise.



    But saying all this I d love it if Peugeot built a retro 205gti,...
    Retain body shape exactly but improve structure using modern technology... so we dont end up with cracking at b pillar and flex in chassis... Imagine it... smoothed floor with modern crumble zone firewall forwards... Carbon fibre or plastic bonnet and guards... Modern motor... say a 2litre twin cam... variable timing, variable intake... and match it all to a nice 6 speed... saving in weight could supply front and side airbags... but otherwise keep it simple... I d go as far as removing fast glass, ac and ps... hell, we could dump the speakers as well... go mono with single speaker only... Nice throaty exhaust and further improved suspension (adjustable), brembo brakes, a racey interior with integrated roll cage... No carpets, fancy pedals and race seats that pay tribute to the t16... maybe supply passenger side foot rest and "holly crap" grab handles...



    dino

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Ha.

    You people never learn. Did you lot not learn anything form all the shows with modified cars? How about the Top Gear episode where they proved that a "hot" V6 306 is slower than an old well sorted whatsamacallit piece of rubbish from the sixties? I bet you in stock form the 306 would have minced the little piece of crap but with all that rubbish in it...

    You mention best is stock and then list all sorts of things you'd like to change with the best bits of the car (i.e. engine, gearbox, suspension, etc.). How about the crap plastics? The infuriating electrics? The finnicky switchgear?

    Why would anyone in their right mind mess with the engine? That's the best bit of the whole car! And the low geared gearbox! Suspension is spot on.

    The ultimate 205 GTI? One that doesn't lose its plastics on the road? Doesn't leak at the rear windows? With working electrics in any weather? With sills that don's fill up and never drain? One whose oil filter remote plate does not break when you try to take the filter off?

    Pristine and unmolested cars fetch the best money because they are bought by people who have that kind of money. Such people would never touch a car someone messed around with and ruined. Be careful what you do to your car. Any modification you make will cost you dearly come sale time.

    So what's the best 205 Gti then? Well, one built in Japan if possible. Stock. Just put the japanese in charge of manufacture.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 12th June 2012 at 11:18 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Ha.

    You people never learn. Did you lot not learn anything form all the shows with modified cars? How about the Top Gear episode where they proved that a "hot" V6 306 is slower than an old well sorted whatsamacallit piece of rubbish form the sixties? I bet you in stock form the 306 would have minced the little piece of crap but with all that rubbish in it...

    You mention best is stock and then list all sorts of things you'd like to change with the best bits of the car (i.e. engine, gearbox, suspension, etc.). How about the crap plastics? The infuriating electrics? The finnicky switchgear?

    Why would anyone in their right mind mess with the engine? That's the best bit of the whole car! And the low geared gearbox! Suspension is spot on.

    The ultimate 205 GTI? One that doesn't lose its plastics on the road? Doesn't leak at the rear windows? With working electrics in any weather? With sills that don's fill up and never drain? One whose oil filter remote plate does not break when you try to take the filter off?

    Pristine and unmolested cars fetch the best money because they are bought by people who have that kind of money. Such people would never touch a car someone messed around with and ruined. Be careful what you do to your car. Any modification you make will cost you dearly come sale time.

    So what's the best 205 Gti then? Well, one built in Japan if possible. Stock. Just put the japanese in charge of manufacture.

    Good luck.

    I disagree... THE BEST is how the whole works together... the engine isnt the best, the transmission isnt the best, suspension isnt the best... What makes the GTI great is how this works together in this package... After driving thousands of different cars one thing that differentiates the 205 from everything else is its chassis dynamics and the way it informs you as a driver. Whether via steering feedback or base of seat... Driving a GTI is not dissimilar to running while chained to somebody else.. To do it effectively one must grab hold of the beast...
    There are better engines out there... there are better suspensions out there... there are better gearboxes... ITS THE CHASSIS. ITS THE PACKAGE...

    as far as the gearing goes... you are completely wrong... the short first was made us such to get the much heavier 405 moving, that is alllll... in the 205gti... most will find it way to short... FFFS there are intersections in melbourne one can hardly cross half way in first gear...






    dino

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! le frogg 205's Avatar
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    i do agree gear ratio's do need tweaking. other than that the car is perfectly balenced. could use a little more power but then traction problems can occur.

    top gear ..... as if a brittish car show could let a french car beat one of their icons.

    cheers

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by le frogg 205 View Post
    i do agree gear ratio's do need tweaking. other than that the car is perfectly balenced. could use a little more power but then traction problems can occur.

    top gear ..... as if a brittish car show could let a french car beat one of their icons.

    cheers
    Point taken. I suspect TG of bias too. There's too much british garbage coming out as "great cars" when it's obvious they're not.

    But their point stands, and in that particular instance, I think they were honest, after all they had an independent audience and the Stig doing the driving.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  11. #11
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    Is the gearing on first really that short?
    Itís been a while since I had a good drive in a 205 but I recall a solid 30MPH in 1st and close to 70MPH in second. I love that long second as you're joining the freeway. I may not be the fastest option but it feels good
    Anywho, a 205 with no leaks, creaks, rattles bits falling off, strong smells of petrol, etc, etc, isn't a 205. Itís annoying but itís what gives it the character it has. Without those imperfections you've got a Clio 182 (I'm sure bits still fall off them too though ). All the elements are there as with the 205, even the extra power most people seem to want, but it just lacks that sprinkle of magic the GTI has.
    As for the "ultimate" 205 GTI, for me would be a nice S3 with fresh standard suspension (maybe 30mm lower for the looks) but without the CAT and maybe a bit of head work to get it up to the 130BHP it was in its youth.



    Oh, and Frog Eyed Sprites are far from British Rubbish. They will have a bigger following than H.O.S. 306's with half of Dick Smiths crammed into them

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    The following of most british cars is not necessarily due to their qualities but rather to the availability of parts which is due to enterprising individuals ready to capitalise on a market for these cars. There's many more cars and much better ones most people would have but parts availability is a major problem. Case in point our own 205s. The french are not interested in their fan base, that much is clear.

    Another interesting situation is with BMW 2002 which has a much bigger cult following in the US than Germany, again due to part availbility locally. You can not buy pistons out of Germany anymore, but you can in the US. Some local business saw the opportunity and jumped in. True, you can still buy a lot of parts from Germany, but not everything (mainly old stock).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    I'm sorry this is moronic thread.

    Its going to be different for everyone because everyone knows best. The ultimate 205 is the 205 you want.

    Having said that, a Series 3 with a quaife.


    Chris


    205GTI - 8 valve, single cam coolness.



  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    No, gearing isn't not really that short. It was used on the 1.6L GTi and when you use it on a 16V you don't even notice it. The 3.45:1 first gear from an Si or Mi16x4 is short. Maybe they thought that as power was reduced from 130hp to 75kW they had to make it launch better. So they lowered both first gear and the cwp. I think it's more the gap you notice as you know it has the ability to pull a much higher ratio. The gear set in the 90kW/130hp cars is lush. Anyway, here's my ideas:

    75kW Cars:
    1. Anything to get rid of the front brakes. ie Si hubs, 266mm rotors and 206/306 calipers.
    2. Any after market ECU that gets rid of the Jetronic setup.
    3. LSD
    4. Maybe a disc rear end
    5. EBC Green pads so the wheels stay clean.

    90kW Cars:
    1. LSD
    2. 3.94:1 cwp
    3. EBC Green

    Leave the suspension, tires and wheels standard. If you can't get OEM shocks, then Bilstein.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    2. Any after market ECU that gets rid of the Jetronic setup.
    In saying that Peter, you cant re-map the Jetronic ECU can you? Is this 'a' reason why changing the standard exhaust is not such a good move?

    I mean, if you re-mapped your ecu according to the exhaust and intake respectively would it allow for better performance of say the DFZ 75KW engines?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    would it allow for better performance of say the DFZ 75KW engines?
    Limitation in the head, compression and pistons. ECU can't fix those


    Chris


    205GTI - 8 valve, single cam coolness.



  17. #17
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    No, gearing isn't not really that short. It was used on the 1.6L GTi and when you use it on a 16V you don't even notice it. The 3.45:1 first gear from an Si or Mi16x4 is short. Maybe they thought that as power was reduced from 130hp to 75kW they had to make it launch better. So they lowered both first gear and the cwp. I think it's more the gap you notice as you know it has the ability to pull a much higher ratio. The gear set in the 90kW/130hp cars is lush. Anyway, here's my ideas:

    75kW Cars:
    1. Anything to get rid of the front brakes. ie Si hubs, 266mm rotors and 206/306 calipers.
    2. Any after market ECU that gets rid of the Jetronic setup.
    3. LSD
    4. Maybe a disc rear end
    5. EBC Green pads so the wheels stay clean.

    90kW Cars:
    1. LSD
    2. 3.94:1 cwp
    3. EBC Green

    Leave the suspension, tires and wheels standard. If you can't get OEM shocks, then Bilstein.
    Thanks Peter. Need to add 1 &2 to the to do list. Your post reminded me how unimpressed I used to be with brakes.

  18. #18
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    I have been thinking along the same lines - Came up with this:

    S2 or S3 car, with Si Power Steer, s3 engine, disk rear end, baker hose , gear linkage kit, Group n engine mounts. Bilstein or Spax suspension at standard (or 20mm lower) height (possibly Konis), 406 coupe front brakes, standard engine , mi16/ 205 hybrid gear box, Speedline 434 wheels, quaife LSD, retrimed seats, EBC brakes.

    Ideally white (classic 205 colour).
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    I have been thinking along the same lines - Came up with this:

    S2 or S3 car, with Si Power Steer, s3 engine, disk rear end, baker hose , gear linkage kit, Group n engine mounts. Bilstein or Spax suspension at standard (or 20mm lower) height (possibly Konis), 406 coupe front brakes, standard engine , mi16/ 205 hybrid gear box, Speedline 434 wheels, quaife LSD, retrimed seats, EBC brakes.

    Ideally white (classic 205 colour).
    I'll second that (minus the group N mounts) and in white or Miami blue!

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    406 coupe front brakes
    You're dreaming on this one. Too hard to make wheels fit without spacers. Been down that route already. The 266mm rotor is easiest and cheapest option. Fits under 14" and 15" wheels.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Okay, so EBC pads. Standard ride height with Bilstein shocks.
    I've seen brembo discs online. Anyone use and like another brand?
    How about tyres for both 14" and 15" rims?
    I realise its not going to be a definitive ultimate 205 for everyone. Im just wanting to know what brands people like and recommend. I dont know whether some serviceable parts are worth splurging money on.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! jurgen_s's Avatar
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    the engine of the 309 1.9 turbo
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post

    [...]

    1. Anything to get rid of the front brakes. ie Si hubs, 266mm rotors and 206/306 calipers.

    [...]
    What car has the 266mm rotors?

    Also I remember there was a larger diameter (?) master cylinder that gives improved pedal feel, what car was that one off?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    266mm = all 405's, Xantia, most 206 and most 306.

    The master cylinder you're probably thinking of is four port 306 (22.2mm). Some 205 owners fit non-ABS 406 (23.8mm), but as this car was never released in Australia they aren't available locally.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Does changing the GTI to Si hubs require changing the driveshafts too? I understand the Si hubs reduce the track of the car by some amount.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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