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  1. #1
    nJm
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    cheap run about

    I've put the whole 505 GTi idea on hold. I need a cheap run about for now - so I guess i'm looking at 504s and 505s under $2,000.

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    Any particular model of 504 to look for? It has to be a manual. I don't have much experience with the 504, so I'd like to know how easy it would be to work on myself. Should I get the Ti (fuel injected), or like the 505 are they harder to work on?

    also, what's the likely hood of finding a decent condition 504 or 505 under $2000? I don't want a car to restore or anything, just a cheap set of wheels.

    thanks again!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    You should be able to get a pretty reasonable carby model 504 or 505 for under $2000. The carby models are the one's to go for if you want a car that is easy and cheap to fix. They are a very easy car to work on. It's generally easier to find a late 504 (1977-1980) in good condition than it is to find an early 505 (1980-1983) in good condition. There tends to be a few more little plastic interior bits on the 505 that break (e.g. speedo, vacuum operated ventilation controls, side mirror mechanisms), which will be broken on many sub-$2000 505s. 504s are a little simpler with convential windows, cable operated heater controls, simple mirrors, etc.

    On the mechanical side, they're basically the same car, so they both have the same good and bad points where that's concerned. The 505s all have air-con and they are 5 speed (504s are 4 speed) and have better sound insulation, so there's a few advantages there.

    The interior trim of the 504 (vinyl or velour) is more durable than the 505s tweed wool interior. The 504s also have the round headlights which are super cheap to replace ($10-$35), even if you get the very powerful versions (100W). 504s also have cheaper blinker and tailight lenses (fronts about $20 new, rears about $50).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  3. #3
    nJm
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    I've found a few cheap 505s.

    I found a 1982 505 2.3L 4spd manual with 23,000kms on a rebuilt engine for $3250

    a 1982 505 GR, 5spd man, "Good Cond", no reg or RWC. $2500

    a 1980 505 GR, duel fuel, mech sound, body and int. Dec. Reg. $1500

    what would that last one be like? Any probs running a 505 carby on LPG?

    also, whats the early 505 diesels like? Easy to work on? I have no experience with diesel pugs.

    thanks
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Njm,

    When i was looking for a 505 gti they were very rare in Melbourne.
    When i did track one down it was always an auto
    Dave is the expert on the older pugs and his advice is correct as to find a decent 505 gti,sti for around $2000 would be difficult.
    But i have seen a lot of 504's for around $2000-2500 and they almost all have rwc and reg.


    Murat

  5. #5
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    njm,

    I know one person who had a 505 2 litre which he ran with an LPG dual fuel conversion. He was very happy with the way it ran, although he only had it for a year or two (he changes cars often). This guy is a Peugeot fanatic and has been racing Peugeots since the 1950s, so if he says a car runs well, I believe him.

    Unfortunately the naturally aspirated diesel 505 and 504 are very slow compared with the 2 litre petrol cars (twice as long for 0-100km/h). They are also relatively expensive for engine parts because they didn't sell alot here so they don't have good economies of scale here and second hand parts aren't always easy to find. The diesel engine bay is also much more cluttered than the 2 litre petrol engine bay, which makes maintenance more time consuming (and thus more expensive for labour, etc), although they generally don't need much maintenance (i.e no spark plugs, distributor, etc). If the glow plugs aren't in good condition the diesels can be very very hard to start (almost impossible in winter), and new glow plugs are expensive. Overheating the 504/505 diesel engine also results in more expensive repairs than for the petrol engines because the head can not be shaved much (if at all) and often needs to be replaced (expensive!!!).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  6. #6
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Just to point out my 504/505 diesel credentials. my parents had a 504 diesel from 1985-1991. This was the car I learnt to drive on. It gave 6 years of fairly reliable service (including trips to Cairns and Adelaide) and only really needed glow plugs and maybe a water pump replaced in that time. Since my father is a mechanic with quite a bit of diesel experince, he did all the work on the car.

    The main good points of the car was that it was very very easy to drive and was an easy and economical city driving car.

    The main bad points about the car were:
    -it was very slow
    -it leaked alot of oil (a common problem on these cars). My father modified the timing case to fit a different type of seal which solved most of the leaks, but it was still a very messy engine.
    -it was hard to get at things in the engine bay (n.b. it had air conditioning).

    The engine was very very worn, which was part of the problem. In 1991 my father got sick of the diesel engine and ripped it out and replaced it with a 2 litre petrol engine which he reconditioned. To have fully reconditioned the diesel engine would have been very expensive. Because diesel parts are worth a bit, my father got a pretty reasonable deal by swapping the diesel engine for other stuff with a Pug wrecker.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  7. #7
    nJm
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    ok, thanks for the advice on the diesels.
    I think i'll stick to a 2L petrol engine.

    So would that 505 GR for only $1500 be too good to be true?

    I'll try to find some time to see it this week - 505s seem to disappear pretty quickly in the trading post

    The only 504s i've found advertised are either around $450 or $3000 (and they were all autos).

    would it be worthwhile buying a 2nd 505 for parts? Ive found a 505 2L for $350 (rusty body, good engine)?

    thanks again!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    $1500 is pretty cheap, especially for a car in Melbourne, where S/H prices tend to be a little dearer than Sydney because of the absence of annual roadworty's etc., njm.

    Usually a car for that sort of price will need a fair bit of work, but, hey, that can be fun if its nothing too desperate.

    Different people have priorities with these things,according to their tastes and abilities, but I'd be looking for a car with a sound body (check the front cross members and subframe for any signs of earlier serious damage, rust in places that matter etc). Mechanical items you can always gradually replace, but at least make sure that at least two of the "big three" (engine , transmission, rear axle) have some life left in them).

    The trouble with really cheap cars for "daily drivers" though, is that they can take a fair while to sort out to the point where you really can drive them daily!

    If you do decide to go for a cheap 505, then a parts car makes very good sense, if you have somewhere to put it or time to strip it!

    (PS, if you DO run into a GOOD 504 Ti manual don't be too put off by the mechanical injection system. They really are a fun car.)

    Cheers

    Rod

    [ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</p>
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  9. #9
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Yeah, as Rod indicated, if you have the space, a parts car can come in very handy, especially when it comes to obscure little bits and pieces in the interior, dashboard, etc.

    I personally have a stock of about 4 504s worth of parts, most of which I've picked up cheaply or free. When you have your own stock of parts these cars are very cheap to own and use on a daily basis. Now's the time to buy these cheap wrecks, because in a few years they'll all have gone to the crusher.

    $1500 is about right for an average 505GR these days (atleast in Sydney), although check it carefully because if it has much rust or alot of broken interior bits, then it's not worth more than $1000, if that. An immaculate 505 GR is still worth more than $3000, but there are very very few immaculate ones around.

    You can find some pretty solid and reliable 504s for $1000-$2000, atleast in NSW and ACT. Changing auto models to a 4 speed manual box is pretty cheap and easy if you have a parts car and are willing to do the work yourself. If you're not willing to do your own conversion, then steer clear of the autos (unless of course you want an auto).

    Be very weary of gearbox noises, especially in the 5 speed gearboxes, although Ray Bell knows of a fairly cheap fix using parts from a 4 speed box. Also be on the look out for engine pinging (pre-ignition). This can sometimes be a real problem on some 505 GRs, SRs and SLis (probably due to the lean mixtures used) and can result in piston failure. On carby models, fitting slightly richer jets usually eliminates the pinging (in addition to making sure the igntion is all set up correctly). As I mentioned before, cheap 505s tend to have a few broken things in the dashboard, ventilation system, etc. Check this all out before you buy one, although if you get a parts car this may not be a worry.

    Whatever car you look at check carefully for rust around the door apertures, sills, front and rear windscreens, boot, front subframe, etc. Pretty much all cars of this age will have small rust holes around 5mm diameter when you start to attack them with a screw driver around the door frames, windows, etc. These are pretty easy to fix by welding, brazing or putty. When the holes look like they're larger than 10mm then fixing the rust can be a real hassle. Don't pay more than $1000 for a car like this even if it has a full years' rego. If it has less than 3 months rego, don't pay more than about $500.

    Even quite rust free cars, will often have fair size rust holes below the plastic covers which sit on the bottom of the door opening, although most people never remove these, so never know about the holes. They're quite easy to clean up, paint and replace the covers so that you can't see the holes and the rust is stopped from growing.

    If you plan to keep the car for less than 5 years or so, then some of the special putties with glass fibres and stainless steel powder in them, can do wonders to even quite rusty vehicles. But as I mentioned before, cars like that should be very much in the sub-$1000 bracket, otherwise the seller is being very unrealistic.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Its interesting the variation in prices between Sydney and Melbourne. In Victoria I would put the price of an "average" 505 GR at $2000 to $2500. When I bought my now sadly deceased 1987 blue Sli wagon from a dealer in Sydney for about $9000 in 1997 the "market rate at dealers " for these cars in good condition in Melbourne was around $12000 to $14000. With nearly 300,000 on the clock it was still assessed at nearly $7000 when it was written off a few months ago. I've seen similar condition vehicles for under $5000 in Sydney

    I was looking for a 505 for a friend recently down here and there was simply nothing under $2000 that was even worth considering. $2300 to $2500 was closer to the mark for a reasonable car.

    Rust has always been more of a problem with cars in Sydney than in Melbourne too. You should be able to find something reasonably rust free without too much trouble here. I guess salt spray, temperature, rainfall and humidity make the difference. Its one of the reasons why cars from places like Bendigo and Ballarat are almost always worth the trip for a look too.

    Just by the way, rust protection dramatically improved in Peugeot 505's in the "Series II" models. If you can afford the extra this can make a difference if you tend to keep cars for a while.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  11. #11
    nJm
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    I only want to keep it for a few years at most. I want a car I can just jump in and drive as soon as I get it home- as I said before, I don't really want a restoration project (don't have the time at the moment).

    I'll keep my eyes peeled for some more deals around.

    thanks for the advice so far.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I have a 505 with an excellent basic body, needs a windscreen, I have a good set of seats and trim to suit, the engine needs a rebuild, two doors are biffed, a tiny bit of rust in one guard, but everything is there, 504 radiator, 4-speed box...

    0411 280 267 any time if there's some interest.

  13. #13
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    G'Day,

    I got My 1982 505GR for only $200 out of the Newspaper. It's condition is really quite good.
    Its an auto, and has new heads And the price was a bargain with 1 and a half months rego left on it.

    It's only bad points were a Cracked Windscreen and a small leak at the timing chain cover. It cost me $210 for a windscreen and $40 for the timing cover. Smooth as a babys bum now!! All the other crutial and non-crutial parts are tip top!(few scratches on bonnet)

    It shows that you can find Peugeot bargains, especially in Canberra. People just don't seem to value these classics here in the capital. Last week, I came across several 504s in working and resoring order for under $400

    QUESTION: Does anyone know how much the 'optional' wheel mags for a new Renault Xaria?
    I only need one of the wheels.

    Cheers
    JoFuS

  14. #14
    nJm
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    wow. thats good.

    Maybe I will consider looking at the ones that look too-good-to-be-true. I've seen a 505 5spd GR (no RWC or reg) for $350. Supposedly in good cond (mech and body).

    probably has a crap interior (the tweed seats don't seem to last well).

    but if it hasn't be registered for a while, it can be difficult/expensive to get it registered?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Ranger's Avatar
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    Hi JoFuS

    remember well these words from the ancient chinese philosopher Confucius 550-470 BC

    " Man who buy cheap second hand car ---- often have trouble driving a bargain "

    I hope you will have many safe, enjoyable and trouble free miles/Kms in your bargain.

    Regards Ranger
    "The defendant is no gentleman, but that is neither here nor there. We find for the defendant, much as we dislike him." A.P. Herbert

  16. #16
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by 82' 505 and Crusin':
    <strong>Last week, I came across several 504s in working and resoring order for under $400
    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Do you have the contact details for these 504s? They tend to have less rust in Canberra than here in Sydney. If one of them is a post 1977 car, I'd be interested in knowing more about it.

    Any info you could give me would be very much appreciated.

    Regards,
    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i just need a pair of 504 lower control arms for a 604 that is going to have around 3" taken out of the front springs so i can bring the camber back to reality
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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