BA10/5 into an early 504?
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  1. #1
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    Default BA10/5 into an early 504?

    Could someone who's done this conversion offer advice?

    I'd like to put BA10/5 gearbox into my 1973 504TI. If someone has done this conversion, can you tell me whether it is as straightforward as putting this model gearbox into a late model 504? I'm led to believe the transmission tunnel in early models needs a bit of persuasion to enable the BA10/5 to fit. Is this so, and how much 'persuasion'? I've spoken to Paris Jansen, who has fitted several BA10/5s, but only to late 504s.

    If there's an existing thread on this specific conversion (which I haven't found so far), perhaps point me in that direction, rather than reinvent the wheel.

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    Thanks in eager anticipation.
    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringybark View Post
    Could someone who's done this conversion offer advice?

    I'd like to put BA10/5 gearbox into my 1973 504TI. If someone has done this conversion, can you tell me whether it is as straightforward as putting this model gearbox into a late model 504? I'm led to believe the transmission tunnel in early models needs a bit of persuasion to enable the BA10/5 to fit. Is this so, and how much 'persuasion'? I've spoken to Paris Jansen, who has fitted several BA10/5s, but only to late 504s.

    If there's an existing thread on this specific conversion (which I haven't found so far), perhaps point me in that direction, rather than reinvent the wheel.

    Thanks in eager anticipation.
    Al
    Wouldn't think too much persuasion, I have never heard of any problem with clearance.
    You will need to get the gear shift and linkages from the 505 and mount to the floor of the 504. The early 504 shift is mounted on the torque tube.
    The BA10/5 box can be unpleasant, noisy and clunky. The only advantage is fewer revs at cruise and if you don't fit a 505 diff (4.11) you will probably find it is TOO high geared.
    Don't see the point for a country with a 110km/h limit at best.
    Graham

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    If you need a gearbox, i have one that is for sale.
    Adrian Wuillemin

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Wouldn't think too much persuasion....The BA10/5 box can be unpleasant, noisy and clunky. ..
    Agree on both counts. It does fit without a problem (a little bashing is needed to make room for the linkage when 5th and reverse are engaged). The best gearbox for a 504 is the original BA7/4 if you drive the speed limit. Both the BA7/5 and the BA10/5 are [email protected], vague, slow and clanky, nit to mention less durable than their 4-speed counterparts.

  5. #5
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    I have a BA10/5 in my v8 504, and it's still going strong after 15 years or so. I did have the prior BA10/5 fail (needle bearings at end of input shaft) though, but like I said this one has been good for a long time handling the v8's 386 Nm of torque
    __________________________________________________ _____________
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    I've put a BA-10/5 in my 1972 504. Thanos is right - you need to hammer the tunnel slightly so the linkages work without fowling on the tunnel. I also found you had to put a 505 torque tube in so the gearbox flange would match up against the torque tube flange. This also necessitated putting a 505 diff in, but you could also just change over the diff flange with one from a 504 diff.

    The speedo drive is also different, but I was able to use a Renault speedo cable to suit the 504 speedo instrument and the 505 gearbox speedo drive. I can't remember which Renault cable I used though!

    That's about all I can remember that was a problem with the BA-10/5 gearbox going in to the 504. Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo504 View Post
    ...I also found you had to put a 505 torque tube in so the gearbox flange would match up against the torque tube flange. This also necessitated putting a 505 diff in, but you could also just change over the diff flange with one from a 504 diff...
    You can just machine the tail piece of the BA10/5 to fit the torque tube, easy and inexpensive to do before the gearbox is installed.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! stew's Avatar
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    If your Ti is standard, don't bother. 5th gear is a 20% overdrive. The engine labours and drinks too much fuel. Try a 604 diff instead! 3.58 instead of 3.77.

  9. #9
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Or change the gearbox AND the diff. A 504 carby diff (3.89) works well. A 4.1 would make it even more responsive.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  10. #10
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    Default Maybe the question should be BA10/5 or BA7/5?

    Many thanks to all of you for taking the trouble to respond with your views and experience.

    I started out intending to seek out a BA7/5, but several things Paris told me led me to think a BA 10/5 might be an easier fit. (But remember I mentioned that Paris had fitted 5-speeds only to later models, so don't blame him for my equivocation!)

    I take your points about 4-speeds and speed limits, etc. But I have my reasons for wanting a 5-speed box. My issues are 'which one?', and 'what problems must I overcome to make it fit/work?'.

    I just discovered on Google an informative 2005 Aussiefrogs thread (started by Thanos!) about fitting a BA7/5 to a 1972 carby 504. That was helpful, too. And I downloaded Dave McBean's many pages of details and specifications for 504/505/604s. All have added to my very scant grasp of what I'm embarking on.

    So, dare I ask the same question, but this time about fitting the 1973 TI with a BA7/5, rather than a BA10/5? I'm led to believe there may be issues with the clutch arrangements. But let me not 'lead you' in whatever response you might be prepared to give.

    Thank you in anticipation.

    By the way, the car is coming along well. At last, it has now completed two Classic Rally Club events this year without any 'failed to proceed' troubles.

    However, it continues to suffer from a persistent 'hesitation' under acceleration, an awful penetrating resonance between 3000 and 4000 rpm, a (newly) increasing 'scraping' noise in 3rd from the existing 4-speed gearbox, and a persistent and elusive clonking in the rear end (not crossmember mounts, not differential, not shocks, nor top or bottom sway bar bushes -- all of which we have replaced with new or good parts). I'm chasing all of those problems. That's half the fun, isn't it?

    When I work out how to do it, I'll post some photos. Thanks to the herculean persistence of JohnT and Hipcrostino (with input from Peujohn (excellent seats), Rally (505 lower control arms) and terrific spray painting by Gundaroo's Noel Walker, the car looks good and is very much now a 'going concern', after two decades in a shed at Darlington Point, NSW. Despite the little irritations I've mentioned, it is giving me a lot of pleasure.

    Cheers
    Al

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