Which 505 is best?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Which 505 is best?

    Im really starting to think about buying a 505, just love the look of them.

    So come on all you experts, which 505 is the the best out there.

    Performance is a factor for me and handling.

    <small>[ 18 May 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: parry ]</small>

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  2. #2
    nJm
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    parry:
    which 505 is the the best out there
    Mine approve

    Seriously though? Well, I think my personal preference (probably similar to Dave Mcbean's) is a 505 GTi with a 505 GR/SR engine that has been tinkered with slightly.

    The STi/GTi have huge suspension improvements over the soft GR and SR, however I personally don't like the 2.2 engine that much (there are quite a few posts on that topic).

    Assuming that you didn't want to modify it though, I'd be looking for a nice 505 GTi 5spd manual. That way you've got all the suspension stuff and 15" alloys and body kit (sort of). The engine is fine, just nothing amazing. In stock form the GTi is by far the best if you want handling and performance (although the STi is fairly similar, some early ones didn't have the better suspension). Some prefer the lower down torque the STi is meant to have (I've never driven one).

    My dream 505? Probably a Gti Executive or Series II GTi with a 5spd manual and a twin turbo PRV V6 (there are a couple of these around in Melbourne peugeot_ whip ).

    <small>[ 18 May 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: nJm ]</small>
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  3. #3
    nJm
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    This is an interesting facelift... apparently this is what the last of the 505's looked like in some parts of the world:
    <img src="http://www.garage24.net/505ww/50543.jpg" alt=" - " />
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Aren't the turbo 505s down here running autos?

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  5. #5
    nJm
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    ah yes.

    well, I meant my dream one would have a manual wink .
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    I can't really comment on the best 505 as I haven't driven all of them, but I would imagine it to be, as Nick suggested, the GTi series I or II with the stiffer suspension.

    Perhaps some of the others on here can say what the differences are between series I and II cars are (other than interior and exterior fittings).

    I also wonder why they dropped the "Executive" model from series II 505s. No-one liked the leather interior or something??

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
    - 2.0L manual
    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
    - hence "Silver Exec"...
    25 GTX '86
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Well, having driven and owned a Series 1 STi (without neg camber struts but with GTi springs.) and my STi with Neg struts and aftermarket STIFF as front springs.

    With the later suspension handling is much better, and the GTi springs are stiff but comfy to ride in. Aftermarket springs OUCH..... Kidney wrenching.

    As for engines, the difference between an original 280,000 2.2 STi motor and a Reco'd unknown km's since engine is remarkable. THe Reco'd job like to rev alot more than the old one BUT and this is a BIG BUT.........

    They do not like to be revved as hard as the 2L, they (the 2.2L) complain over 4000revs but will rev above this.

    The 2L GR that I drove revved better but it needed to to get going while the STI lump you can easily start in 2nd on flat ground (or maybe thats just my dodgy slipping clutch )But I do like the torque of the motor.

    But then of course Parry you could just sell your 205 and buy the Politecnic Turbo motor from France did someone say?? 550HP deal ........
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  8. #8
    nJm
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    crosspug:
    Well, having driven and owned a Series 1 STi (without neg camber struts but with GTi springs.) and my STi with Neg struts and aftermarket STIFF as front springs.

    With the later suspension handling is much better, and the GTi springs are stiff but comfy to ride in. Aftermarket springs OUCH..... Kidney wrenching.
    Yep, the GTi has a much sharper turn in than the GR. The GR handles fine for such a soft riding car, although I would describe its' cornering characteristic as 'wollowy' but it will keep gripping.

    The GTi feels more 'go kart' like. Much faster ratio on the steering combined with the suspension mods means you can enter a corner at faster speeds and maintain it. The less body roll also means it won't understeer as much (although on the last AussieFrogs cruise, I found when driving like a maniac it was quite possible to keep right up with the GTis and 504 with koni stuff). The GTi does have good ride comfort for a 'sports' model, but naturally it isn't as soft as the base models...

    As for engines, the difference between an original 280,000 2.2 STi motor and a Reco'd unknown km's since engine is remarkable. THe Reco'd job like to rev alot more than the old one BUT and this is a BIG BUT.........

    They do not like to be revved as hard as the 2L, they (the 2.2L) complain over 4000revs but will rev above this.

    The 2L GR that I drove revved better but it needed to to get going while the STI lump you can easily start in 2nd on flat ground
    Yep, I find the GR motor very happy to rev. I've been naughty and had mine up around 7000rpm, although I wouldn't recommend you do that too often in a car with 270,000kms on it :p But if you have a manual gearbox, the engine seems quite happy to stay between 3500 and 5500rpm all day if you want to, even in its current state of 'untune'.

    Only pluses I can think of for the 2.2 is that it sounds like no other 4cyl and t he starter motor sound is most distinctive .
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Only pluses I can think of for the 2.2 is that it sounds like no other 4cyl
    Oh, but what a plus that is...........

    Try 2.5' from headers back with only a sports mid muffler. head_ban

    Rumbles like on other...... mallet and you can kinda ( roll_lau whip roll_lau ) hear it coming
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Ah, but none of the above are a patch on my sLi wagon when it comes to carting a load of camping gear down a wild east Gippsland track, or bringing back half a ton of firewood, or bringing half the football team home after the match!

    Cheers

    Rod wink
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  11. #11
    nJm
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    Well, what about a late series II 505 Gti wagon with a manual gearbox .
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    nJm:
    Well, what about a late series II 505 Gti wagon with a manual gearbox .
    Ah!, but I thought you liked XN motors, Nick! An sLi gives you the best of both worlds ! FI and and XN!

    (I have a rebuilt spare one if anyone feels like transplanting an XN 6 into their GTi or GR wink

    (Yes, I would have loved a late model manual wagon, Nick, but the $$ weren't available at the time. Mind you I know some wagon owners who actually prefer the sLi for things like towing and heavy load work, and I've run into Pug mechanics who say that the XN6 was the most reliable Pug engine ever made - but having had to have a complete rebuild on one of mine I'm not so sure about this !)

    Cheers

    Rod
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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Or you could hunt around and get a nice 504, do a bit of suspension work, set of 15" wheels, add 505 P/S rack, 5 spd, lose the truck steering wheel (if you get P/S anyway), bit of a cam, bit of headwork, bolt on a low blow turbo or supercharger....

    aaaand end up with a car that's less likely to have it's interior in tatters and is arguably more "individual" looking than a 505 and maybe even spend less in the process

    EDIT
    ditto the 604 which would have to be the handyman's/doityourselfers bargain Peugeot at the moment.....everything's there for almost nothing (ie V6, lush interior, quite individual looking etc etc), just alot of work

    <small>[ 19 May 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: DTwo ]</small>

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    There was a manual 505 GTi S2 in the trading post this week. Surely that would be the pick of the litter?

    '92 205 Mi16
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  15. #15
    Member alan_505's Avatar
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    My favourite 505 would be the last models with the different type front end (seen on late model V6's with ABS) and a N9TEA engine and a good japanese 5 speed gearbox. This engine can give heaps of torque when suitably modified, so you could fit a 3.5 diff or lower ratio with a torsen type LSD and get very good acceleration with low revs at cruising speed.

    Alan

  16. #16
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    My favourite 505 is the late model gti sedan. I think they are autos actually..

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    nJm:
    My dream 505? Probably a Gti Executive or Series II GTi with a 5spd manual and a twin turbo PRV V6 (there are a couple of these around in Melbourne peugeot_ whip ).
    Does anybody know who has these beasts? I'd like to talk to anybody who has blown a V6. Mine is headed for supercharging, and I want to know whether I should inject it or carburate it, and a few technical specs like fuel mixture and compression ratios. And anything else experience has to offer.

    Cheers,
    John Lane.
    Current: 406 Coupe, 504 Sedan

    Previous: 306XSi, 205GTi, 206Gti, 505 V6, 505 Wagon, 504 Sedan, 504 Wagon, 306Gti6, 306XT, 205Si, Citroen XM, Citroen Xantia

  18. #18
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Aren't the turbo 505s down here running autos?
    Last time I saw Bill's it was a manual...
    Or you could hunt around and get a nice 504, do a bit of suspension work, set of 15" wheels, add 505 P/S rack, 5 spd, lose the truck steering wheel (if you get P/S anyway), bit of a cam, bit of headwork, bolt on a low blow turbo or supercharger....

    aaaand end up with a car that's less likely to have it's interior in tatters and is arguably more "individual" looking than a 505 and maybe even spend less in the process
    Sounds a bit like mine ! I reckon the best 505 is a 504 with selected 505 bits fitted. Like wheels, 5 speed, sway bars, front struts, springs etc. Then tickle the engine a little (like DTwo suggests) and you have a lovely package.
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by nJm:
    My dream 505? Probably a Gti Executive or Series II GTi with a 5spd manual and a twin turbo PRV V6 (there are a couple of these around in Melbourne ).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Does anybody know who has these beasts?
    Bill Hamilton has a 1980 505 manual twin turbo 2664cc V6, Rob Cherry has a late GTi auto 2849cc single turbo V6.

    John
    John W

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    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    peujohn:
    Bill Hamilton has a 1980 505 manual twin turbo 2664cc V6, Rob Cherry has a late GTi auto 2849cc single turbo V6.

    John
    Hi John,

    Do you happen to know I could contact either of these gentlemen?

    Regards,
    John Lane.
    Current: 406 Coupe, 504 Sedan

    Previous: 306XSi, 205GTi, 206Gti, 505 V6, 505 Wagon, 504 Sedan, 504 Wagon, 306Gti6, 306XT, 205Si, Citroen XM, Citroen Xantia

  20. #20
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    An email is on the way.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  21. #21
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    personally i would steer clear of an SLi 505
    i have they have a lot of trouble with the injection set up on them
    a 505 with a good carb engine with the late model suspension or even a PRV powered one would be my pic if i were to have a 505

    rob cherry is in the vic pug club i think
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    pugrambo:
    personally i would steer clear of an SLi 505
    i have they have a lot of trouble with the injection set up on them
    a 505 with a good carb engine with the late model suspension or even a PRV powered one would be my pic if i were to have a 505
    I haven't had any trouble at all over a quite a number of years with the injection set-up on either of my sLi's Pugrambo. I've had a dead and clogged cat converter, which caused me some angst, but the injection is pretty straightforward K tronic stuff.

    Of course, its not as pokey as the OHC motor , but the general line I've heard from Pug repairers is that its significantly more robust (though, as I said, I ended up having one of mine rebuilt - due to a cooling system problem) .

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 20 May 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  23. #23
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    I concur with Series II GTI manual 5sp - having previously owned one for over 10 years. Sold it a couple of months ago. I loved that car - excellent to driving in all situations! Mine was also somewhat unusual being a Series II which ran on Super. Most Series II run on unleaded and apparently had noticeably less power. I think all Series I ran on Super (now LRP). It was an 85 model which was I think the year they changed to unleaded.

    Still missing my Pug. Gotta get another one. I thinking a 406SV 5sp must be the spiritual successor.

    Cheers Adrian

  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Well, Norm always said that 403s were created to provide parts to improve 203s and keep them running...

    Well, jaundiced as it might be, that's coming to be my view of 505s. They are good donors of nice gear for 504s and 404s.

    5-speeds, fresh discs, ratios, LSDs, sundry other improvements. Good gear for 504s and some for 404s.

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:
    Well, Norm always said that 403s were created to provide parts to improve 203s and keep them running...

    Well, jaundiced as it might be, that's coming to be my view of 505s. They are good donors of nice gear for 504s and 404s.

    5-speeds, fresh discs, ratios, LSDs, sundry other improvements. Good gear for 504s and some for 404s.
    Having owned several 504s (one presently) and several 505s, and driven numerous others (dozens), and also having restored two 504s and one 505, I beg to differ, Ray. The 504 is an absolute classic, but the 505 is a 504 with numerous refinements to virtually everything, and very few drawbacks.

    The one drawback is the seats in the Series I version. The late 504s had incredible seats (the ones with the two-piece backs, not the tombstone style). The Series I 505 seats are passable. The Series II seats are fantastic.

    People talk about "plastic" but the truth is that the 504 has plastic in most of the places that the 505 has it.

    I agree that the 2.2 engine is a bit of a dog. Noisy and leaky, and with the injection, complicated. But the 505 enjoyed the best of the X engines for several years prior to getting the new alloy one.

    I have to admit I am not one for GRs. The car is just that bit too heavy to do without power steering. I had a GR for about five years and the SR is a huge improvement.

    If you are after a 505 I would recommend the SR of all the different models, if you are sticking with "standard". It has the refinement of the 505 without the complexity and other issues which the 2.2l motor brought with it. And the SR still enjoys the simplicity of construction which makes these cars a pleasure to work on. Yet it has power steering, power windows, central locking, and air-conditioning. All of the things which we moderns have come to regard as quasi-essentials in a sedan.

    The only things I'd change are the front springs (I have STI ones fitted) and anybody who buys one absolutely must replace all of the front suspension bushes. I've done this to a 504 and a 505, and it is the only way really to discover the true handling, steering, and ride of these cars. It makes one realise why people who took them for test drives back in the 'seventies and 'eighties were so stunned. (The whole set of bushes is less than $100 and you can replace them all in an afternoon.) The dampers must be restored or, if they are too far gone, replaced - heresy! - with inserts. (YUCK!)

    Of course, more power is nice, too, but that gets expensive and they don't absolutely need it. It depends on the kind of driver you are.

    I think I probably concur, over-all, with Dave and Nick. The latest ones had even better suspension, but the X engines are gems. And if you do a few little things to them (Weber carby, match the ports, lighten the flywheel if it is a manual) you can drag another 5-10% out of them, and it makes a lot of difference. Oh, and chuck away all that anti-pollution cr*p. Oops, sorry, you may not be in Western Australia.

    Good luck searching!

    Cheers,
    John Lane.

    PS Thanks for the Rob Cherry lead. He has already saved me several hundred dollars, and provided some invaluable tips on building up these PRV V6 motors.
    Current: 406 Coupe, 504 Sedan

    Previous: 306XSi, 205GTi, 206Gti, 505 V6, 505 Wagon, 504 Sedan, 504 Wagon, 306Gti6, 306XT, 205Si, Citroen XM, Citroen Xantia

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