Am I dumb, or Blind? How do I tension this belt? - 504 Ti
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Default Am I dumb, or Blind? How do I tension this belt? - 504 Ti

    Got my Ti engine out & am about to mount it on my stand, just to give it a wash down, look it over, etc. Looked at the belt arrangement - how on earth does the fan belt get tensioned? Am I missing a tensioner here? The Carb engines I have all travel from crank to alternator to water pump, but this one..... Or am I being mislead by the loose belt perhaps not being from this engine?

    Maybe I'm just blind.......

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Got my Ti engine out & am about to mount it on my stand, just to give it a wash down, look it over, etc. Looked at the belt arrangement - how on earth does the fan belt get tensioned? Am I missing a tensioner here? The Carb engines I have all travel from crank to alternator to water pump, but this one..... Or am I being mislead by the loose belt perhaps not being from this engine?

    Maybe I'm just blind.......
    You are correct. The short belt that connects the bottom pulley to the water pump is fixed length and not able to be adjusted.

    A TIP- if you try to alter the alternator (mounted under the engine) N-S position to use a single belt ie bottom pulley- water pump- alternator you can't.

    The belt grazes the water pump, this is why the TI used two belts

    EDIT: Just realised your is a non standard set up. The aircon bracket is custom made.

    A standard TI has the alternator under (exhaust side) the engine and a two sheave pulley.

    The inner sheave drives the water pump via a fixed length non adjustable belt.

    The outer sheave drives the alternator and tensioned by adjusting it.
    Last edited by robmac; 18th May 2012 at 10:06 PM.

  3. #3
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    There are two holes down on the left that must take another something? Aircon compressor perhaps? Power steering pump?

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    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Thanks, as always, Rob...

    Luthier, I think that's where the Alternator is supposed to sit, according to Rob? On the Exhaust side, under the incline of the block? Very cramped under there & difficult to access.... I think I like the arrangement I have... If I can make it fit

    Rob - the crank pulley does indeed have two sheaves - the inner driving the water pump, the outher driving the AC pump. The AC pump, in turn also have two sheaves, with the inner driving the alternator...

    So - just need to get the correct size & stretch it on? Or fit it in conjunction with the water pump? The belt that's there will obviously never work...

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i have seen that setup and prefer it over the other where the alternator sits under the engine where oil will kill it

    the water pump belt is a fixed length and quite easy to put on, just get it to just start on the pulley and turn the engine over and it will slip right on

    this in my opinion is a perfect setup as the water pump bearings tend to last a lot longer as they are not under high belt tension as it would be if hooked up with the alternator
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! julian b's Avatar
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    this motor must have had power a power steering pump whrere the alternator originally was .with this set up now it looks like the battery would have to be moved to allow for the alternator

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian b View Post
    this motor must have had power a power steering pump whrere the alternator originally was .with this set up now it looks like the battery would have to be moved to allow for the alternator
    i have seen at least 3 TI's with this setup, one of which my father owned

    none had power steering

    as stated i think this is the better way to have the alternator
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default 504 coupe or poverty 604

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    You are correct. The short belt that connects the bottom pulley to the water pump is fixed length and not able to be adjusted.

    A TIP- if you try to alter the alternator (mounted under the engine) N-S position to use a single belt ie bottom pulley- water pump- alternator you can't.

    The belt grazes the water pump, this is why the TI used two belts

    EDIT: Just realised your is a non standard set up. The aircon bracket is custom made.

    A standard TI has the alternator under (exhaust side) the engine and a two sheave pulley.

    The inner sheave drives the water pump via a fixed length non adjustable belt.

    The outer sheave drives the alternator and tensioned by adjusting it.
    I don't think the AC bracket is custom made. That setup looks like a 504 / 505 coupe setup and the power steering pump is missing. Some 604s had 4 cylinder engines. I know Ron Milne did a V6 auto to Ti manual conversion (1990?) into a 604 using a 505 alloy sump and AC system. (he also put a 505 4.11 diff in it) I would not expect what is pictured to fit in a 504 without moving the battery tray. I have the same sump and AC mount going into mine at the moment and there isn't room for an alternator in that location with the standard battery tray.

    Where is the battery? Is it further back than a standard 504?

    Standard Ti has alternator bolted underneath, two belts and no power steering.

    Bruce.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    The engine came out of a 504 Sedan, but I didn't pull it out & didn't see it in the car, so no idea where the battery was located.

    Intending to fit it into my 404, so this ac / alternator arrangement will hopefully fit ok... With the battery moved

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Oils ain't oils!

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    i have seen that setup and prefer it over the other where the alternator sits under the engine where oil will kill it

    the water pump belt is a fixed length and quite easy to put on, just get it to just start on the pulley and turn the engine over and it will slip right on (So you "turn the engine over", I was wondering how oil gets on the alternator and kills it.)

    this in my opinion is a perfect setup as the water pump bearings tend to last a lot longer as they are not under high belt tension as it would be if hooked up with the alternator

    Oils ain't oils!
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  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post
    Oils ain't oils!
    go put a new set of plugs in that car will ya

    gotta be due for some by now
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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