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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default New 207 Questions - Help!

    Hi guys & girls

    New member and new to Peugeot. Have just bought myself a new 207 1.6 Petrol and have a few concerns that I would like to run by fellow owners/Peugeot nuts!

    The car has done 12,000k's and I have noticed that it sounds rattly to me. I have taken it back to the dealer twice now and they first blamed oil and told me it was all fixed. Went to collect it and no better so it spent another week there. After taking recordings of the noise and sending them to Peugeot and listening to new cars the dealer is assuring me that it is normal and they all sound like this. My partner has also bought herself a Citroen C3 (same motor) and has been told the same thing.

    I would have thought that a 1600 Petrol motor should be quiet as a lamb, I understand that they have a timing chain but my old Nissan sounds quieter than this thing. When I first drove the car I didnt notice the noise and now it reminds me of our Diesel Ford Transit

    Has anyone else experienced this problem or similar with the Prince motor? I am a little nervous as it almost sounds to me like the top end is loose and knowing my luck will cause dramas outside of warranty period....

    Other than this I love the car, well specced and very comfortable on my long trips.

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    Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

  2. #2
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    Default 207 engine

    Hi. just taken delivery of new 207 "out of the box" & picked up the "rattle" too on delivery (didnt notice before). Without hesitation salesman mentioned timing chain, but like you, I would have thought a modern timing chain would be quiet.........should be less service problems though compared with a belt. I have it noted with the service dept, as a check at the first service @ 2500km when we will listen to others. Otherwise just getting used to quite a fun machine, although a bit hard on the Michelin 195x55 R16 Energy savers. My 203 is silent in that dept but the 404 & 403 I have never quietened as well.

  3. #3
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    The distinctive "rattle" of the engine is a pretty common noise from engines with direct injection. They are just noisy.

    That's my experience, anyway.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Thanks for the replies guys, it has eased me a lot!!

    Like you I am wrapped with the car and when looking around at other Euro hatches I simply couldnt go past it for value.

    The Citroen dealer mentioned the injection to my wife but I wasnt 100% certain, your comments give me a little more faith in the dealer now.

    I did a lot of reading before buying the Pug and everything I read (mainly in UK) was excellent so it swayed me, was starting to get very worried but your comments have bought back the confidence in the car.

    Will be interesting to see whether the noise goes away after a few more K's, will let you know.

    Also, does anyone know a good Peugeot specialist in Brisbane? My confidence in the dealerships isnt great having worked at one for 18 months.

    Thanks again.

  5. #5
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    Default 207 engine

    Like wise additional comments helpful! Had a good listen since last post & in the garage (closed in) sounds worse than the first time i heard it in the yard!! Doesnt sound timing chainy at all as its up there in the cam area. With "screwdriver stethoscope" it is quiet on cars left & "metallic", diesel knock like on the cars left. I note that this engine doesnt have the total plastic covers which is common on the bigger diesels so perhaps more lagging would have masked the noise. I note oil was mentioned.........the oils sure are like chicken wee wee to get lower emissions & drag so something thicker probably would mask the noise too but not recommended no doubt.

    Hopefully all is well........perhaps some BMW Mini drivers might be contacted for comment.

    Just doing a spec comparo of the 207 & first cousin 203 which is proving very interesting!

    Happy driving. Dave

  6. #6
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    Default 207 engine noise

    Just done a surf on "207 engine noise".........wish i hadn't. Some of the Mini ones were like old tractors!! Comments seem to be that its OK for direct injection engines but then they all should be the same for the same models. For what its worth the Toyota hilux 3.0 diesel is v noisy compared to PSA so all in design I suppose.

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    I did a little bit of a look around and I think that only spurred on the nervousness!

    I will give it the benefit of the doubt and see how it goes.

    Anyone know any decent Peugeot Mechanics in Brisbane? Doubt my dealer who sells 20 times more Mitsubishi's than Pugs is going to invest heavily in equipment and training for Pugs....

  8. #8
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I'm not entirely certain but I don't believe the normally-aspirated motors suffer from the same timing chain issues that the turbo motors can suffer from.

    I maintain that the majority of issues arise from lack of oil changes (or in other words, excessively long service intervals) — especially with the MINI — and even the UK service interval for the turbo motored Pug/Cit is a little excessive. Perhaps their dodgy weather also plays a part.

    I think Peugeot Australia's 20k interval is probably just ok (as long as you maintain the oil level in between services) whereas Citroën Australia should be commended for dropping the interval on the turbo motor to 10k. I'm not sure if they do the same for the VTi non-turbo motor.

    I don't recall any people on here having issues with non-turbo versions. There have been a few here with turbo motors that have been affected.

    My 207 is on 89k (and almost 5 years) and it doesn't appear to be affected by the rattle. The oil is changed every 10k or 12 mths.

    The DS3 is up to 14k and is still a baby. It of course had an oil change at 10k.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Yeah the rattle is pretty normal (well on a turbo gti anyway) its because of the tensioner on the timing chain but when I say normal I mean not overly loud but you can hear it if you listen for it...

    Take the oil cap off whilst its running and thats when they get really noisy!!

    I have now looked and listened to several of the turbo lumps in various guises Ie mini,ds3 and 207 and some sounded ok and some like tractors with a very clear distinct bad rattle.

    Mine too has the rattly noise you describe from the top left of engine bay. I am sure its just mechanical noise and normal and certainly not the timing chain and or tensioner..

  10. #10
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    Default 207 engine

    Mine is new out of the box , non turbo & less than 1000K, so service & oil etc N/A. Listening to the Mini videos was scary! Sounds v mechanical to me & with comments re oil I wonder if the pressure is sufficient to work the tensioner correctly. Awaiting Peugeot comment.

    Dave

  11. #11
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    The 1.6 Vti PSA eninges have had timing chain tensioner problems. The new design is much better. Some of the early ones did disintegrate causing serious damage. The cylinder head, injection, cams, chain and tensioner is BMW's desing input. The block, crank, pistons etc are PSA.

    I am not sure if the tensioner differs on the normally aspirated version and the turbo.

    Turbo's have failed due to clogging which was found to be the oil supply pipe and the gauze pick up in the sump.

    This engine is rattly by nature but the rattle differs greatly from model to model. Frequent oil and filter changing is a must and as others have mentioned a 10,000km interval will pay dividends.

    Most of the serious issues reproted have been in the UK and Europe. Probably due to very low ambient temperatures where the oil takes much longer to circulate, lubricate and reach the optimum temperature range. Add to that a lead foot when the engine is cold and the long term prospects are not going to be good.

    As with any engine, wait for the oil to circulate prior to driving and when the engne is cold take it easy until its warmed up.

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    I was just concerned because I have never heard a petrol engine make a noise like this, except for the old Lampredi Twin Cams when the shims arent correct

    Just seems like it is all in the top end, reading around it seems as you say that they are noisy. Sort of expected better from something European. I sell Italian manufacturing machinery and if one of my machines made a mechanical noise like this I wouldnt send it out!

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    I have a BMW K1200 RS bike and at idle it sounds like a bag of loose nuts and bolts but its always been like that.

    On the PSA 1.6 petrol once the revs are up a bit its fine. I think a lot of the rattle is attributed from the timing chain and tensioner design. The one I drove was not that bad really. Its like with most things, once you start concentrating on something it becomes more apparent.

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    I agree 908, might have to turn the stereo up in the morning when she is cold! Thanks for the input.

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    Default 207 engine

    On a lighter side..............attachments of 203 (doesnt rattle) with new 207 cousin!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 207 Questions - Help!-2012-207-203-010.jpg   New 207 Questions - Help!-2012-207-203-018.jpg  

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Far North Kiwi View Post
    On a lighter side..............attachments of 203 (doesnt rattle) with new 207 cousin!
    That's an unfair comparison. The 403 is run in
    Last edited by 908HDI; 17th May 2012 at 09:35 AM.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    My wife's 1.6L will do this every time from cold for the first km or so, and that clatter has always seemed to me to be simply a matter of how long it takes the oil to get to work on the top end. I'm sure it wouldn't be such an issue if she'd warm the car up for even a half a minute, but would you like to tell her she can't do what she wants RIGHT NOW?!? (I wouldn't ...).

    It doesn't help, either, that she usually drives out of our place and up a couple of fairly steep hills in quick succession, without a whole lot of sympathy for the hardware ...

    On the positive side, having driven her car on a long run or two lately, I think it's a great little motor, even if it can't pull the way the diesel does, and coming from the 206GTi's worlds-away power-to-weight numbers, it didn't disappoint me anything like I expected it to. Very nice auto box, too ... think it's very droll the way it's spec'd to top out at 196 km/h cf. the diesel's 195, too ...
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  18. #18
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    Default 207 engine

    Still ps me off that everyone says its OK once the oil gets there........sounds bad & what damage is done? If ALL of the 207s were the same then perhaps OK too, but from what I can gather they differ with some of the Minis like tractors. My 203 is definitely quieter & the Aussies who drove the NI in my 403 reckoned it was super quiet to as is my 404 & 504 for that matter.............their noise is muted the 207s is "mechanical"

    203 v 207 unfair comparo?? Will compare 403 & 404 specs for interest.

    Great to see 208 is well above sales in Europe at launch. Also see Vauvhall reviewing engines & even have a 1.6 & 1.2x 3 cylinder.........perhaps part of the PSA GM deal?

    Happy motoring.

  19. #19
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    What does the 203 sound like compared with a Type 174S?
    Regards,

    Simon

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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Far North Kiwi View Post
    Still ps me off that everyone says its OK once the oil gets there.
    What else are you going to do? The valves are at the top, and gravity ensures that the oil collects at the bottom. Run it for more than a minute, and the "issue" goes away.
    MY15 208GTi

    previously:
    MY10 Sportium HDi6 and 1.6L auto
    MY99 206GTi
    MY96 306XSi auto
    MY02 Clio 1.4L auto

    1ére grenouille:
    MY5? Simca Aronde 90A



    QUICK! MORE BREAD, MORE CIRCUSES!!

  21. #21
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    Default 207 engine

    Glad your noise goes away!!

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    My noise is there for around 2 seconds if that, it has a constant tappety noise but nothing bad at all.

  23. #23
    Tadpole
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    Got the same problem with my new 308. The rattle goes once the car warms up. Have to take it back to the dealer and leave it overnight so they can start it in the morning and listen to it.

  24. #24
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    Default 207 engine

    Hang in there! The more I hear/ read the less I worry about this issue, but having a shed full of Pugs, it disappoints me when my 207 idles next to say a Hyundai or Susuki! Otherwise she goes like a rocket in standard spec & looks much better. Service Dept to listen with me @ next service but what interests me is that some of you have quite varying times when the noise goes away (mine stays) which indicates to me difference in tuning/ timing chain tension/ VVT mechanism or what ever. Our new Fiat Ducato (Peugeot Boxer) 2 years ago had the "official" skinny oil replaced by "better for NZ condition" oil at its first service & we reckon that increased fuel consumption............theory is that original oils are super skinny to achieve best emission/ fuel economy figures at source. Bit like the tyres we have.....Michelin Eco savers or something which are run at 35PSI & you can feel it. For a better ride something else would need to come on board & be cheaper to secure too I would emagine. SHE'S A GREAT LITTLE PUG, but it would be great if Peugeot could just give an answer.........I have even asked the engineer who escorted me through the factory a year ago to comment but he hasnt!!
    Its a beautiful sunny day up here in the Far North NZ, so must take a Pug for a gallop! Dave

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Mine sounds like this at the very start and the end (listen when its not revving and just at idle).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...m1ZyCi_7g&NR=1

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