Hdi engine oil specs
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Hdi engine oil specs

    Hi people,

    Normally live over in the Renault dungeon.
    Have purchased a 2007 TDCI non-DPF hatch for son.
    The diesel engine, Duratorque, I am led to believe is the PSA/DW family engine.
    What are the engine oil specs for it as required by Pugs/cits?
    The ford engine oil spec is M2C 913B is not often quoted on oil specs available aftermarket.
    Know you guys are pretty hot on Total/Elf.

    Am after a specification cross-reference. I suspect a mid-saps ACEA C3 5W30 will do the trick.
    Just after confirmation/web sites leading to specs.

    Thanks,

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    David
    Last edited by 85Fuego; 28th December 2013 at 06:31 PM.

  2. #2
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    The oil you should run is Total Quartz INEO ECS. It is about $100 at Peugeot/Citroen dealers.
    http://www.peugeot.com.au/media/deli...305-df583b.pdf

    The easiest to find WSS-M2C 913-B Ford-spec oil is Liqui-Moly LEICHTLAUF SPECIAL | 5W-30 (made in Germany). It is $60 at AutoOne and Autobarn.

  3. #3
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    Ford WSS-M2C 913-B, superseded by WSS-M2C 913-C
    Traditional high-SAPS oils, lower HTHS limit of <3.5, based on ACEA A5/B5.
    Oils which meet the more recent C-spec include:

    • Caltex Havoline Energy 5W-30
    • Castrol EDGE Professional A5 5W-30
    • Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5W-30
    • Motul 8100 ECO-negy 5W-30
    • Total Quartz Future NFC 5W-30

    Though I don't think I've ever seen these particular oils on shelves.



    Ford WSS-M2C 934-A and WSS-M2C 934-B
    Low-SAPS oil, lower HTHS limit of <3.5, based on ACEA C1
    I don't think these lubricants are necessary for your DPF-less engine.



    PSA B71 2290

    Mid-SAPS oil, lower HTHS limit of <3.5, based on ACEA C2.
    Specified for all Peugeot/Citroen HDi engines with a DPF.
    Oils approved to this spec include:

    • Castrol Magnatec Professional C2 5W-30
    • Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C2 5W-30
    • Mobil Super 3000 Formula P 5W-30
    • Motul 8100 ECO-clean 5W-30
    • Total Quartz Ineo ECS 5W-30

    I haven't seen these particular oils on shelves either, though you can buy the Total oil from Peugeot or Citroen dealers.



    ACEA C3
    Mid-SAPS oil, but with a higher HTHS limit of >3.5 (which means it's a bit thicker, so more drag, less efficient).

    • Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
    • Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30
    • ... and many more

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_vert View Post
    Ford WSS-M2C 913-B, superseded by WSS-M2C 913-C
    Traditional high-SAPS oils, lower HTHS limit of <3.5, based on ACEA A5/B5.
    Oils which meet the more recent C-spec include:

    • Caltex Havoline Energy 5W-30
    • Castrol EDGE Professional A5 5W-30
    • Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5W-30
    • Motul 8100 ECO-negy 5W-30
    • Total Quartz Future NFC 5W-30

    Though I don't think I've ever seen these particular oils on shelves.
    Castrol EDGE Professional A5 5W-30 - only available in 200L drums I believe
    Total Quartz Future NFC 5W-30 - not imported into AU
    Mobil Super 3000 X1 Formula FE 5W-30 - unable to find stock in AU.



    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_vert View Post
    Ford WSS-M2C 934-A and WSS-M2C 934-B
    Low-SAPS oil, lower HTHS limit of <3.5, based on ACEA C1
    I don't think these lubricants are necessary for your DPF-less engine.



    PSA B71 2290

    Mid-SAPS oil, lower HTHS limit of <3.5, based on ACEA C2.
    Specified for all Peugeot/Citroen HDi engines with a DPF.
    Oils approved to this spec include:

    • Castrol Magnatec Professional C2 5W-30
    • Fuchs Titan GT1 Pro C2 5W-30
    • Mobil Super 3000 Formula P 5W-30
    • Motul 8100 ECO-clean 5W-30
    • Total Quartz Ineo ECS 5W-30

    I haven't seen these particular oils on shelves either, though you can buy the Total oil from Peugeot or Citroen dealers.
    Total Quartz Ineo ECS 5W-30 - easily available at Peugeot dealers, but expensive...

    Note that none of the Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 that you find on the shelves in the Sydney auto stores is the "Professional" or "Edge Sport". The new Edge Titanium does not meet the required specs.

    Oil is complex these days

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys.

    Know all about complexities of motor oils - now have 3 diesels in the house from 3 manufacturers. Ford, Renault, & VW.

    Using this tool here have had a look at the RELATIVE performances of the ford spec (913C) the Pug spec (B71 2290) the VW spec 504/507 and generic C3.

    For the VW have been using Liqui-Moly, however it's not on special from Autobarn here in Vic.
    The VW camp is anal about oil companies 'meeting specs' and oil being certified by VW as meeting spec!

    Prefer not to get an oil that is stocked at dealers only usually means $$$$

    Looking at the 913 spec it SEEMS inferior to all.

    Would like a generic C2 or C3 that is available at REPCO to get the discount. Have decided on this oil change to try NULON 5W30 Synthetic Long life diesel oil that meets C2, C3 and Ford spec.

    However, looking at the tool VW 504/507.00 may be the ticket. Does all well but not as clean as C3.

    There is also the thoughts out there that you should throw economy to the wind and get a heavier oil 5W40 vs 5W30 in interests of mechanical longevity - not Penrite 5W50 style though.

    Any other thoughts - oil discusions?

    Regards,

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    Thanks guys.

    Know all about complexities of motor oils - now have 3 diesels in the house from 3 manufacturers. Ford, Renault, & VW.

    Using this tool here have had a look at the RELATIVE performances of the ford spec (913C) the Pug spec (B71 2290) the VW spec 504/507 and generic C3.

    For the VW have been using Liqui-Moly, however it's not on special from Autobarn here in Vic.
    The VW camp is anal about oil companies 'meeting specs' and oil being certified by VW as meeting spec!

    Prefer not to get an oil that is stocked at dealers only usually means $$$$

    Looking at the 913 spec it SEEMS inferior to all.

    Would like a generic C2 or C3 that is available at REPCO to get the discount. Have decided on this oil change to try NULON 5W30 Synthetic Long life diesel oil that meets C2, C3 and Ford spec.

    However, looking at the tool VW 504/507.00 may be the ticket. Does all well but not as clean as C3.

    There is also the thoughts out there that you should throw economy to the wind and get a heavier oil 5W40 vs 5W30 in interests of mechanical longevity - not Penrite 5W50 style though.

    Any other thoughts - oil discusions?

    Regards,

    David
    Renault RN0720 (oil spec for diesels equipped with a DPF) is a low-SAPS oil, loosely based on ACEA C4. According to the datasheet of Mobil Super 3000 Formula R 5W-30 (a RN0720 spec oil not available here) it contains 0.5% sulphated ash and 0.05% phosphorus. This oil is probably okay for your Focus, but probably not suitable for a VW TDI PD engine (amongst other reasons).

    Not all 504/507 oils are equal. If it meets ACEA C2 or C3 (i.e. mid-SAPS oils), then the level of SAPS may be too high for the Renault, as per RN0720.

    No 5W-40 oil has 507.00 approval, and the level of SAPS in a 5W-40 505.01 oil (spec for VW TDI engines without a DPF) would be too much for the Renault, as per RN0720.


    I'd use Penrite Enviro+ 5W-30. Why?

    • It has been officially approved by VW (not a cheap exercise) to standard 507.00, which backwards compatible with 505.01.
    • It has also has approvals for MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 (just a nice bonus is all).
    • Even though it meets 507.00, it's much closer to being a low-SAPS oil like Renault RN0720, which is ideal for the Koleos' DPF.
    • Likewise, the level of sulphated ash (0.6%) and phosphorus (0.06%) indicates it's more of a mid-low SAPS oil (closer to ACEA C1/C4 limits, and it's also why it doesn't meet ACEA C2/C3).
    • It has a HTHS of >3.5 as required for the Koleos and Golf, as per RN0720 and 507.00.
    • It's acceptable to use a high HTHS oil in an engine calling for a low HTHS oil, but not vice-versa. So the Focus is taken care of.
    • It's available in retail stores.



    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa View Post
    Oil is complex these days
    Only if you happen to own three modern diesel vehicles that call for such disparate oil specs that makes it technically impossible to be fully compatible with each other.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Diesel_vert,

    You are correct, would have been lovely to run one oil in all, but socialism in oil circles isn't allowed.

    Am actually running Penrite Enviro+ 5W-30 in the Koleos - it's somewhat of a pain because of a 7.5L sump capacity (you get 2 oil changes out of 3 x 5L jugs).
    Seems to be doing the job. Gets 8L/100k in urban conditions.

    Run Liqui-Moly Top Tec 5W40 in the Golf. Has been going well now for 7 years. All sorts of horror stories of cams going belly up in the US but not here?
    Gets 6L/100k in stop start traffic.

    The Focus drives well is a different feel of diesel/clutch combo. Relaxed - not as peaky as the Koleos.

    Will keep my eyes open for '20% off RACV Specials'.

    Thanks for the thoughts - good to see I'm not the only one 'peeking outside the box' oil wise!

    David

  8. #8
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    Default Penrite Enviro+ 0W 40

    I used Penrite Enviro+ 0W-40. Why? Because it was the only oil I could purchase in 5Lt plus the 1Lt containers, and I needed 5.25Lt for oil & filter change and didn't want to purchase 2 Qty 5Lt containers. I have used it in my 2.0 HDi 307. It is a mid SAP oil. I would have preferred the 5W 30 but couldn't source it easily.

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    strange
    I have two HDIs, a 2.0 litre 8 valve and a 2.2 litre 16 valve.
    Both only need 4 1/2 litres to get to the max mark on the dipstick after an oil and filter change

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselnutjob View Post
    strange
    I have two HDIs, a 2.0 litre 8 valve and a 2.2 litre 16 valve.
    Both only need 4 1/2 litres to get to the max mark on the dipstick after an oil and filter change
    Yep, the oil capacity of the DW10TD (2.0 90 HP) or DW10ATED (2.0 110 HP) is 4.5 litres and for the DW12TED4 (2.2 136 HP) it's 4.75 litres.

    However, the DW10BTED4 (2.0 136 HP) needs 5.25 litres.

  11. #11
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    I use Penrite Enviro+ 5W-30, so hopefully the dpf will not gunge up any time soon. It is easy to source at Autobarn. Having said that, the local store in Devonport has just gone bust. I must try Supercrap which is unfortunate as it is a lowly retail experience.
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    Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 , 5 litre, is currently on sale at Repco. $49. ( normal price $75 )

    (ends 21st October 2012.)
    spiz

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    Try using one of these links to search for the oil that suites you car.
    http://lubematch.shell.com.au/search...age=5&brand=67
    http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/valv_auMS/
    Or search google for a lube guide from the supplier of your choice.

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    Total Quartz Ineo ECS 5W-30 was $75 about 3 months ago at Melbourne City Peugeot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlone View Post
    Total Quartz Ineo ECS 5W-30 was $75 about 3 months ago at Melbourne City Peugeot.
    On my last service at Melbourne City Peugeot the oil used was Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30, hence the Repco deal suits well.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Spiz; 15th October 2012 at 09:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlone View Post
    Total Quartz Ineo ECS 5W-30 was $75 about 3 months ago at Melbourne City Peugeot.
    Trivett Parramatta's Parts mob wanted to charge me $113 for it two months ago.
    Regards,

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    This is the new one 5w-30w from Penrite I've used on my 2007 307 2lt turbo HDI with FAP. It's full synthetic maximises DPF life, low sap and cheap enough from Supercheap, around $58 for 5lts and cheaper when on they go on sale. And it comes in 1lt as well

    http://www.penriteoil.com.au/engineo...id_products=12


    Cheers George

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiz View Post
    On my last service at Melbourne City Peugeot the oil used was Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30, hence the Repco deal suits well.

    Cheers
    I hope your dealer is not putting that oil in a DPF equipped HDi powertrain. I'm pretty sure that's not C2/C3 rated. You need to go to Ultra Extra to get the C2/C3 rating.

    http://lubematch.shell.com.au/recomm...age=5&brand=67

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    I hope your dealer is not putting that oil in a DPF equipped HDi powertrain. I'm pretty sure that's not C2/C3 rated. You need to go to Ultra Extra to get the C2/C3 rating.

    http://lubematch.shell.com.au/recomm...age=5&brand=67

    Cheers

    Justin
    The dealer used Ultra Extra, was a typo in my post. & the Repco deal is for Ultra Extra.
    spiz

  20. #20
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    Just replying as another user of the Penrite Enviro+ 5W 30. The earlier Penrite equivalent for DPF engines was HPR 0, but that has now been replaced by the Enviro+ range.

    This oil suits both our 2.2 Hdi 4007 vehicle as well as the 407 SV Hdi V6 turbo diesel. The recent dealer price for the Total equivalent was $92.00. As a long term user of Penrite oils, I have total confidence in their product.

    Cheers,

    K


    Quote Originally Posted by Whippet View Post
    I used Penrite Enviro+ 0W-40. Why? Because it was the only oil I could purchase in 5Lt plus the 1Lt containers, and I needed 5.25Lt for oil & filter change and didn't want to purchase 2 Qty 5Lt containers. I have used it in my 2.0 HDi 307. It is a mid SAP oil. I would have preferred the 5W 30 but couldn't source it easily.

  21. #21
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    There's a nulon oil sold in 5 and 10litre drums at your local supercheap and autobarn that are 5-30, low ash, designed specifically for european diesels. About $120 for 10litres from memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    There's a nulon oil sold in 5 and 10litre drums at your local supercheap and autobarn that are 5-30, low ash, designed specifically for european diesels. About $120 for 10litres from memory.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Any one recommend this oil. I am about to do a oil change on my 407 Hdi V6 and am thinking of either Nulon Full Synthetic 5W-30 EURO Engine Oil or Penrite Environ DL-1.

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    If you go to the Penrite Factory in Bayswater you will get a good deal according to the Penrite guy who spoke @ the P.C.C.V. Meeting recently-Do not think you have to have a Club Membership but would not hurt to take it with you if you have one.

    Do not know about other states.

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    For the record, I ended using Penrite oil but not FL-. Repro don't stock, not is it their Penrith book. I used enviro+ 5W -40.
    Car likes the change


    Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by kool-lites; 3rd June 2013 at 01:32 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Trivett Parramatta's Parts mob wanted to charge me $113 for it two months ago.
    G'day,
    as well as being the most difficult to go to and fro, they are very expensive.
    regards,
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