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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Default Opinions please

    I am starting a new job and have the opportunity to do a novated lease as opposed to receiving a company maintained vehicle.
    I am seriously looking at a 308.
    I prefer a manual so the petrol Active seems the only choice.
    Bummer that the diesel is now only available in auto.
    The other choices I have are VW Golf of Honda Civic Si.

    I'm interested to hear from anyone who has test drive the various 308 variants as to their thoughts on them.

    Whaddaya reckon?

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Get the company vehicle.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Why do you say that?

    Company vehicle is either dunnydore, foulcan or aurion - base spec.

    They'll give me $18k allowance to provide my own.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I looked at leasing and it's not what you think it is. It is selling you a service rather than a car, much like a contract mobile phone. They make it very attractive to stay in the lease and change cars every four years and paying lots of money to do so. The alternative is taking a huge loss on exiting the scheme. Do your numbers up to make sure it's for you otherwise you'll find yourself out of pocket. What killed it for us was that we could have never satisfied the minimum yearly km requirement (can't remember what it was in the end, we tried reducing it until they said no less than X). Plus they tie you up with BP (in our case) or some other oil company, and so on. We gave up and bought s/h a car we liked for a very good price (less than half of what you have).

    Remember it may sound promising to have 18k/year while you work for that company, but if you change jobs, you're stuck with the car and in a contract which is expensive to get out of on your own terms.

    After that my philosophy was that I won't mix work and personal cars. If they give me a car all paid up, I'll take it without care whatever it is. If I want to buy a car for myself, I'll buy it with my own money.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    Go the Golf!
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

  6. #6
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    Slitzaugen has some valid points. Over the last 6 years i have leased or chatel morgaged 3 cars.
    You can get a chatel morgage from a major bank at 7-8 percent per annum over the term of the loan.

    Leases are a no good because of the way they are structured the residual is a maximum of 40 percent of purchase on exit. However you can set up a chatel morgage where you pay the purchase price and interest in equal instalments over a 5 year period and there is zero money to pay at the end of the term. I prefer this.

    Its like getting a loan for the car and paying 60 equal instalments at the most competative rate you can get. the advantage is that you can claim the gst back immediately and all repayments are deductible as is a percentage of running costs based on the percentage of buisness use in your log. I believe the log is kept for 3 months. I use my car mainly for buisness and therefore claim 90 percent of petrol, service, insurance, rego etc. So it can have its advantages.

    If your work is paying 18k per year and you get to keep the car then thats good, in fact that would meet your repayments on a chatel morgage over 5 years more than twice, so you would be crazy not to accept. For eg i purchased a company veihicle for 43k and pay about 800 dollars a month for 5 years. $18000 divides into 12 months , is $1500 dollars , thats more than generous.

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    Novated , chatel lease are the same from my understanding , just be clear on where you stand if you were to be laid off, who would own the car and the remainder of the repayments.

  8. #8
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post
    Go the Golf!
    Why????

    Why would anyone suggest a VW?

    I know a guy touring Australia who is from Germany and a qualified VW mechanic who will tell anyone prepared to listen how bad VW are and especially automatic transmission.

    I just did a delivery today to a Euro car specialist who couldn't praise French cars high enough but did he complain about line of broken down Golfs waiting for service. His words "compared to golfs a 206 is a good car"
    VW might feel better inside but the build quality under the bonnet where the owner never sees leaves a lot to be desired.
    David Cavanagh

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    I've heard lots of bad stuff about VAG autos too...but who would buy a small euro car with an auto anyhow?
    Pugs Rule!

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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys.
    My theory is that the vehicle (say commodore) is worth $18k/yr to the company i.e. thats what it costs them to operate. So company cars are not "free", you pay for them in reduced salary. Online calculators show about $18k running cost for a falcotoyodore and about $11k for a 308 petrol doing the same mileage.
    Now there are all sorts of tax and FBT implications but given that I expect to do about 35000k's at 90% business use, I struggle to see how I could not be better off financially, never mind having a more pleasant motor to drive.
    With all the negative debate I have encountered searching the net on this topic I am beginning to think it might just be easier to take the Aurion and be done with it!



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Yeah I hear ya with reliability and thats why I want to wait and check out the new Civic Si being released next month. I saw one in the flesh in Israel last week and they look pretty good. No problems with build quality or reliabilty or resale value either.
    Still I love the Peugeots too!



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    For that kind of mileage you are right. We couldn't hit that and we could not claim that much petrol, etc. so when we calculated how much it would actually cost us for the petrol alone to do all those kilometers we said a definite no. Also, we only had the choice of the three manufacturers you mention, and none of their cars appealed to us, apart from the XR5 which turned out to not be on their list anyway. But do your sums by all means, don't rely on online calculators unless you know exactly how they come up with the result.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Why????

    Why would anyone suggest a VW?

    I know a guy touring Australia who is from Germany and a qualified VW mechanic who will tell anyone prepared to listen how bad VW are and especially automatic transmission.

    I just did a delivery today to a Euro car specialist who couldn't praise French cars high enough but did he complain about line of broken down Golfs waiting for service. His words "compared to golfs a 206 is a good car"
    VW might feel better inside but the build quality under the bonnet where the owner never sees leaves a lot to be desired.
    Yes, I have no experience with the Golf but it seems to win all sorts of praise from the motoring press when comparing against the opposition.
    Ultimately if you want reliability - go japa.
    Having just got back from 4 days in Paris and seeing 308's being used as taxi's, they can't be too bad. Just a shame the manual is nla in the diesel.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Why????

    Why would anyone suggest a VW?

    I know a guy touring Australia who is from Germany and a qualified VW mechanic who will tell anyone prepared to listen how bad VW are and especially automatic transmission.

    I just did a delivery today to a Euro car specialist who couldn't praise French cars high enough but did he complain about line of broken down Golfs waiting for service. His words "compared to golfs a 206 is a good car"
    VW might feel better inside but the build quality under the bonnet where the owner never sees leaves a lot to be desired.
    X2 The DSG gearboxes are great until things go wrong at which point you find out its $6K+ for a new one.

    The 308 2.0 Hdi [ especialy in wagon form ] is hard to beat but the seats are not to everyone's liking.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus View Post
    Yes, I have no experience with the Golf but it seems to win all sorts of praise from the motoring press when comparing against the opposition.
    Ultimately if you want reliability - go japa.
    Having just got back from 4 days in Paris and seeing 308's being used as taxi's, they can't be too bad. Just a shame the manual is nla in the diesel.
    The 6 speed auto gearbox in the 2.0 Hdi 308 is very good. Have you driven the auto ? I had a 308 hdi wagon auto loan car last year and found myself changing gears manually and it worked quite well. On long boring straight roads just left it in D.

    I am so use to changing gears before roundabouts and corners and normally hate autos but found the 6 speed on the 308 is very "usable".

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    I really like my golf gti, nothing gone wrong at all in 4 years, but is a manual not dsg.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 908HDI View Post
    The 6 speed auto gearbox in the 2.0 Hdi 308 is very good. Have you driven the auto ? I had a 308 hdi wagon auto loan car last year and found myself changing gears manually and it worked quite well. On long boring straight roads just left it in D.

    I am so use to changing gears before roundabouts and corners and normally hate autos but found the 6 speed on the 308 is very "usable".
    I have not driven the auto so I should before making any decisions. My experience with auto's is that they generally want to make decisions for you and they are not the choices I want!
    The 6 speed "intelligent" auto in my company Aurion transforms what could be a great car into a pita. Its almost impossible to fire it off the apex of a corner when you want it to - even using the "sport shift".
    I still struggle to understand why humanity no seems physiologically unable to depress a clutch pedal any more.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus View Post

    [...]

    I still struggle to understand why humanity no seems physiologically unable to depress a clutch pedal any more.
    It has nothing to do with what people can or can not do. It is easier and cheaper to build electronics than mechanicals. And once we go electric, I would be surprised if there was any driver involvement left at all.

    And, as Gerry Freed put it quite nicely, electronics can do a lot of things, but can't anticipate your thoughts.

    I have driven some time ago an Opel Corsa "ECO" which basically had the computer override everything I did including downshifting (it was a manual). Once I figured out it was supposed to be driven with the curise contro, it went a bit better, but still the computer was in control.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Get a Skoda Octavia wagon 2.0TD, and what remains after lease and running costs, keep in your pocket.
    Care factor = -273.15șC

  20. #20
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poo-Go View Post
    Get a Skoda Octavia wagon 2.0TD, and what remains after lease and running costs, keep in your pocket.
    A VW by any other name is still a VW
    David Cavanagh

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    https://www.facebook.com/FrenchConect

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Interesting that on a Peugeot forum there are reccomendations for everything but a Peugeot.

    I know where there is a new MY11 HDi in manual form so its one of them, or a manual Access petrol or I'll just go with the Aurion. At least that would be the new update model which seems to have some significant upgrades.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! kinroh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus View Post
    Interesting that on a Peugeot forum there are reccomendations for everything but a Peugeot.

    I know where there is a new MY11 HDi in manual form so its one of them, or a manual Access petrol or I'll just go with the Aurion. At least that would be the new update model which seems to have some significant upgrades.
    ...there is a strange relationship between Peugeot's and their owners, its only recommended if you have a passion for them, in every other sense they're a let down.
    go with the Toyota.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    A VW by any other name is still a VW
    Not really. I am not sure where our Skodas come from, but those made in the Czech republic are renowed for quality. My family has been driving the Fabia and now the Superb with absolutely no issues after 7 years on long transcontinental trips. Both manual trannies. Volkswagens of the same vintage are known for problems (gearboxes in special). This is in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus View Post
    Interesting that on a Peugeot forum there are reccomendations for everything but a Peugeot.

    I know where there is a new MY11 HDi in manual form so its one of them, or a manual Access petrol or I'll just go with the Aurion. At least that would be the new update model which seems to have some significant upgrades.

    You are trying to buy a service, not a car. If you were after the car and loved Pugs, I would say go for it, but with a lease and if you need it for work, well, that changes things. My opinion too is that you need bulletproof reliability and service first and foremost (can't go wrong jappo here). Service for Euros is patchy in WA, don't know where you are, but here, I hate both the Pug/Cit and Reno dealers.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Morpheus's Avatar
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    Thanks Schlitz.
    Yes that is a concern of mine for sure.
    Hence my thoughts of a Honda Civic Si. They're a little cheaper but economy not as good. But yep, you can buy a lot of fuel for the cost of a bad dealership experience!
    This is why I'm getting to the stage of saying "stuff it" and opt for a company Aurion.
    There seems to be too many considerations to weigh up.



    2011 Peugeot 207 HDi Touring Outdoor

    2004 Peugeot 206 XT 1.6 Manual.

    Past: 1953 Thames 100E van, 1966 Austin 1800, 1972 XA Falcon V8, 1973 Peugeot 504,
    1984 Mitsubishi Colt, Holden HX Kingswood, 1983 Toyota Corolla XX, 1988 Toyota Corolla 4WD, 2007 Peugeot 307XSE. + various company Falcauriodores.

    Next: 2007 Peugeot 407HDi Coupe

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I think that is why you see so many company Aurions/Priuses/etc. If your work depends on it you don't want some dealer to stuff you around. Holden I understand has very good dealership support too, and I wouldn't imagine Ford would be far off. Such is life.
    As for Hondas, what can I say? My son's 88 Civic ED (last twin carby model) still has all the original rubber hoses (including heating/fuel), not to mention driveshafts, engine (never opened up - perhaps that is part of the secret) and 350kkm on the clock and still pulls hard when opened up. Beat that. Leave it alone and you'll get your money's worth out of it and then some.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 10th May 2012 at 06:23 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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