205 Gti MI16 (VIC)
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Default 205 Gti MI16 (VIC)

    Hi everyone

    I'm new to the forum and (like everyone, it seems) looking to find a nice 205 for a Sunday plaything. I'm in Sydney, but there don't seem to be many cars of interest here at the moment, so I may have to organise a trip down to Melbourne.

    I like the look of the Mi16 currently advertised on the for sale forum (well, actually, I hate those black wheels and the blacked out grill badge, but these things can be fixed and the interior and engine bay look much loved!). However, there seems to be lots of people cautioning against high mileage in a 205s. How much do I need to worry about a car that is approaching 200,000k? For example, the red series II on carsales at the moment also looks lovely, but has well over 200k on the clock.

    Also, I love the idea of the extra urge of a Mi16. However, I would have no idea how to check whether a conversion has been properly done or not and whether I would have any drama with getting the car registered in NSW. Is there an acknowledged guru who does inspections that I would talk to in Melbourne to get a car inspected?

    Thanks!
    Richard

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Personally, if I had 10k to drop on a 205 i would buy that one. Its by far one of the nicest conversions and done in a late model car that looks to be in almost perfect condition.

    Plenty of 205 guys in Melbourne. They will chime in once they see this post.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    The red one looks very tidy!!

    Dont let the km's put you off as long as it has service history and has clearly been looked after buy it they are getting hard to find now!!!!

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    I second cam on the green car. Ring the mechanic who services it. I agree you should determine the nsw hoops to jump as a priority. Do some searches on this site for such discussion.
    Even an elise would cost you 3x more for similar power ratio, plus 205 mi is really unique.

    Ash
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Mi16 would be fun!!

    And way quicker than a std 1.9 gti

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    All of the above!!!
    There's heaps to choose from at the moment.

    But I like the grey 15' speedlines on MICAH's GTi, they're something different. The Mi16 would be loads of fun!
    There's a 1.6 GTi import which would be awesome! Or the silver one in QLD looks like a great example of a loved car.
    Or...get yourself a bargain and dive into Johnny G's...spend what u save on learning the ropes and fixing her up.

    Don't let the k's turn you off....its probably just a good indication of how much they loved driving it!

    But get on it quick because people are clicking that these cars a truly unique

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezza View Post
    Mi16 would be fun!!

    And way quicker than a std 1.9 gti
    ...what are you waiting for. Gezza I thought you had cash to splash?

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.

    If you are saying not to get too stressed about the k's, why do so many people seem to say 205s don't stand up to high mileages?

    I saw the ad for the silver series 3 in Brisbane. It looks lovely and I love the idea of full history and the one owner for 20 years. I'm a Brisbane boy originally so I've got Dad lined up to inspect it on the weekend. If it checks out, the only thing in the back of my mind is that when I had a 205 years ago, the only thing I wished for was a bit more power (it was a lovely series 3 in Miami Blue. I brought it down here and registered it BLU205 - still see it around occasionally).

    Not sure if some more subtle mods to an 8V will get me a bit enough extra response and punch or whether I'll still really hanker for the 16V....

    I saw Johnny G's car. Have a look at the high res photos though - it just doesn't look like an 'honest' car to me. Someone's put grey mouldings on a car that should have black. Front bumper is still black, but doesn't seem to fit well, nor does the air dam or grill. Rear quarter GTI badges don't match, nothing seems quite straight, horrible doof doof exhaust. Doesn't gell with 'two careful previous owners'. If someone spent $5k on the motor, why the oil leak? And if the car is so easy to get on the road, why hasn't he done it? Just smells too likely to be dodgy to fly to Melbourne for....

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    My Topaz 89' GTi has got 185555 on the dial and still goes like clock work. Infact my mate still thinks it pulls better than any of his ever did! Though may have had engine work done in its early days.

    But they are relatively cheap to get engine work done to it in comparison. In saying that you can spend a lot of money getting an engine reco done depending on what u do.

    But one and leave it standard if you can. You'll appreciate it more in years to come.

    anyway thats my 2 cents.


    best of luck

  10. #10
    Member MICAH's Avatar
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    If you are interested in my 205 mi16, it's still for sale.
    That said, there is a young frog enthusiast coming to see it again on Sunday.

    My mechanic is Ted from Europarts. Ph: 9583 3766.
    Give him a call if you would like, I'm sure he would be glad to talk to you about it.
    He actually mentioned he may want it himself.

    Thanks Cam, the 205 isn't perfect but it is in very good condition.
    It has a couple of marks here and there (pm for photos) but for a car coming up to 25 years old, it is pretty great.
    The conversion has been done right and the motor is very strong. Heaps of fun to drive.

    Also, these great cars in good condition will only increase is value.

    Please keep in mind that I'm heading overseas in a few weeks so the earlier the better.

    Cheers.
    Micah
    Last edited by MICAH; 4th May 2012 at 07:44 PM.
    Renault Sport Clio 182 Cup F1 - FRB
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    Peugeot 205 MI16 - Sorrento Green - Sold

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    Definitely check up on what will be required to get it registered in NSW. The states have different standards, and they will not recognise an engineering certificate from another state. You will more than likely need to get an engineers certificate from a NSW engineer, and may need to make modifications before you get it (I'm making an assumption here that the power increase is big enough to require it).

    I've never bought an interstate car myself, but know people who have have had a horrible time with modified vehicles that had been registered in ACT and VIC when trying to transfer the rego to NSW. It's better to know what you are up for before you start, than get a rude shock after

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

  12. #12
    Member MICAH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Definitely check up on what will be required to get it registered in NSW. The states have different standards, and they will not recognise an engineering certificate from another state. You will more than likely need to get an engineers certificate from a NSW engineer, and may need to make modifications before you get it (I'm making an assumption here that the power increase is big enough to require it).

    I've never bought an interstate car myself, but know people who have have had a horrible time with modified vehicles that had been registered in ACT and VIC when trying to transfer the rego to NSW. It's better to know what you are up for before you start, than get a rude shock after

    Tony.
    I didn't have any problems getting it registered and Vicroads are pretty strict.

    Due to the MI16 motor being the same size (1.9) as the stock gti there is no need for an engineers cert.

    There are definately mi16 205's registered in NSW.
    See here -----> Australian 16v205 register

    Peter t might know more on this topic as he has one registered in Sydney?

    I don't think that it would be a problem.

    Micah
    Renault Sport Clio 182 Cup F1 - FRB
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    Peugeot 205 MI16 - Sorrento Green - Sold

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    The people I knew had a 500HP V8 and a modified camper van, both which had passed all regulations in their own states with documentation to back them up but had to be modified to meet nsw requirements.

    If you didn't need an engineers cert then it is probably a non-issue, but yes it would be best for someone who's been through it in NSW to comment

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    I think the VIC rego requirements are way more relaxed!!!

    I was recently in sydney needed a a pink slip just for a 'permit' to drive back to VIC...and i got denied for everything under the sun! In Vic you only have to call up, throw down a rego number, $70 later you're driving where ever you want for repairs on your permit.

    The fellow apologised and said thats pretty much how they make their money. At the same time they denied a guy that had a slight oil leak. Bit rich. And here i was thinking they were a bit dodgey and they'd pass the pink slip for sure.

    Julian

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Karoshi's Avatar
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    I had one to an engineer a few years ago in NSW for a blue slip. No engineering from him, just engine number change.

    I had to do the regular stuff like install windscreen washer bottle that the heathen in the ACT can't be bothered with.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Thanks Micah. I am unfortunately at a work conference this weekend, but will give you a call later. I will also get a report from my Dad tomorrow morning on how nice the Silver one in Brisbane is...

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Richard, look into the club permit situation in NSW for 25 yr old cars. I would buy a made in 1987 series 1 GTI and get Peter T to do the Mi conversion - same money, fun build up, more control over project, cheap permit, may only need to be 'safe for the road' like in VIC.

    Ash
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Mi16 conversions aren't a problem in NSW as capacity is the same and power within 15% of original. After all, it's basically just a 16V head on a near identical block. Just a blue slip process.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Richard, look into the club permit situation in NSW for 25 yr old cars. I would buy a made in 1987 series 1 GTI and get Peter T to do the Mi conversion - same money, fun build up, more control over project, cheap permit, may only need to be 'safe for the road' like in VIC.

    Ash
    Hope the Club Permit Scheme is better than the one in Queensland.
    Only unmodified cars are elligible up here.

    Paul

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    We looked at the silver GTI in Brisbane yesterday. Nice original car, but a fair bit of work required to bring it up to the level I would expect for $9,500. Owner won't budge yet on price - says he can't lose money on it! - so gave Micah a call and will hopefully see his car on Thursday.

    Silly question time - Aussie Mi16s are 108kw/144hp(?) Is it much work to bring them up to UK 160hp spec? What do you do to an Mi16 to get a bit more power without spending a fortune and ending up with a peaky engine that's no fun for normal road work?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    We looked at the silver GTI in Brisbane yesterday. Nice original car, but a fair bit of work required to bring it up to the level I would expect for $9,500. Owner won't budge yet on price - says he can't lose money on it! - ?
    Dick what things did the silver one need?

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    Silly question time - Aussie Mi16s are 108kw/144hp(?) Is it much work to bring them up to UK 160hp spec? What do you do to an Mi16 to get a bit more power without spending a fortune and ending up with a peaky engine that's no fun for normal road work?
    The difference is compression ratio, 9.7 vs 10.4. A thinner head gasket, inlet cam and chip is the cheapest and easiest way to give it 160hp and more.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    The points we picked up on the silver GTI were as follows:
    - no cam belt change, nor any other major servicing at all, since 2003. I therefore figure it needs cam belt immediately and you'd do water pump and rear engine mount at the same time - $8-900?
    - significant paint blistering all across the rear hatch, paint lifting/peeling under bumper and on the grill, a couple of tiny bubbles near the back of the roof that may be just the start of some rust - so a bit of work and partial respray required make it properly tidy.
    - Rear reflective panel badly cracked. I understand these are hard to find?
    - mismatched, faded sided mouldings on passenger side of car.
    - front passenger side blinker badly frosted/crazed - wouldn't pass a roadworthy.
    - normal problems with front seat bolsters collapsed and stitching gone at back of squabs.
    - disks had significant lips on them - obviously dad couldn't easily measure them, but he thought they were likely to need replacing.
    - dash binacle is much lighter colour than the rest of the dash. Could they have replaced it at some point with an earlier one? Why would you do that? Or do the different plastics on the dash just fade at very different rates?
    - Bob Jane tyres! Why would you do that on a GTI?

    All in all, nothing that a bit of time and money wouldn't fix, but I thought that for $9,500 I should be getting a car that would be cleaner than that. Am I being unrealistic? I'm guessing it will sit there for a while until the vendor becomes a bit more realistic and is prepared to negotiate.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    The difference is compression ratio, 9.7 vs 10.4. A thinner head gasket, inlet cam and chip is the cheapest and easiest way to give it 160hp and more.
    Thanks Peter. Just to get a general sense, does that sound like about $2,000 of work (ie, by the time you do the cam belt, check valves etc)? Or am I being optomistic? The engine in Micah's car is apparently standard, but taken out of a track day car that was totalled - so who know I suppose what you'd find or decide to do once you went so far as taking the head off, replacing cams etc....

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    The 8 valve engine is pretty tough mate. As long as its had regular oil changes, i think she'd pretty sound. i think looking at valves and tappets etc comes after you get the car on the road again. If it starts and drives...thats a pretty good start. (this is just what I'd be thinking if i were buying it)

    As for the dash and seats. Pretty normal as you know.

    But yeah...asking price is a bit steep if it needs all the basics! Put it to him.

    I still think MICAH's Mi would be an absolute weapon! Everything you want from a 205 + more power! Worth every cent after the headaches of a conversion...
    (again just thinking out loud )

    Julian

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