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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Diagnosis Required

    Hi all,

    My car has been having a bit of trouble starting when cold, and last week the famed "anti-pollution fault" popped up on the screen, if only for a second. It's done it again this morning.

    After about a minute it runs fine and there has been no loss of power or anything else that may suggest it's any major issue.

    Me thinks it's a sensor of some description.

    Anyone got a spare PP2000 or diagnostic machine lying around that I can get the old girl plugged in?

    I'm in North West Sydney but beggers can't be choosers in terms of location.

    I believe the fault, once translated from french, means "have fun with this!".

    Edit- not asking for a freebie, just some frog mates-rates if required and someone who knows what they are doing! PM me if required.

    Cheers,

    bigwal

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    Last edited by bigwal; 16th April 2012 at 09:39 PM. Reason: More notes

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Default

    can I ask what the car is?
    2011 Renault Koleos manual petrol, yes it's boring, but not as boring as:
    2017 Renault Koleos auto

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! kinroh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    can I ask what the car is?
    i bet it is a 206

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    I was thinking 307 diesel!
    2011 Renault Koleos manual petrol, yes it's boring, but not as boring as:
    2017 Renault Koleos auto

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Kinroh wins- it is a 02' 206 GTi. I updated my signature last night but failed to put it on my post.

    Interestingly I started the car in a new way tonight- I turned the key to the full 'on' position, then turned it off, and then turned to 'on' and then started. And it started without a fuss.

    I have been thinking that it could be the coolant temperature sensor, although with this new way tonight, could this show a poor performing fuel pump?

    When the car has warmed up there are no problems at all.
    bigwal

    2002 206 GTi

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||

    2004 206 GTi 180 1999 206 GTi (the missus')

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! kinroh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwal View Post
    Kinroh wins- it is a 02' 206 GTi. I updated my signature last night but failed to put it on my post.

    Interestingly I started the car in a new way tonight- I turned the key to the full 'on' position, then turned it off, and then turned to 'on' and then started. And it started without a fuss.

    I have been thinking that it could be the coolant temperature sensor, although with this new way tonight, could this show a poor performing fuel pump?

    When the car has warmed up there are no problems at all.
    I too also have an 02 206 gti, im at doonside, the faults you say are similar to mine, i get them when its cold and moist. i only use the car for weekend driving now though. there are a few suggestions out there...

    -fill up premium unleaded or whichever has the highest octane 98?
    -if the car goes in sluggish mode, turn it off and on again, the thing will still beep but youll get full power.
    -take it to a mechanic, parramatta prestige they might help you out with the fault codes.
    -starting car in cold start. turn it on keep revs 1500-2000 rpm when sitting for about 3-4 minutes before heading off.

    i think you just got lucky today with that start to be honest. it will come back and haunt you.. like it did to me.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    Default starting

    my bet is on the fuel filter as the block up they take longer for the pump to get fuel preasure up

  8. #8
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    do you follow the oft mentioned 206 starting procedure ?

    1 turn the key until all the lights come on
    2 wait until all the lights go out
    3 turn the key and start the engine
    4 wait at least one [1] minute
    5 go
    regards,
    Les W.


    206 GTi 180
    the stealth Pug
    Did I do anything last night that suggested I was sane?








  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    I will only ever fill up with 98 and I've had her for 7 years, and usually only Caltex or Shell. In regards to the start procedure, I learnt years ago to turn the igition until you can hear the clicks of the fuel pump, and then start it once the fuel light has gone out.

    The sitting there for a minute I have never done.

    I did notice tonight though that after it started without a problem, there wasn't the 30 seconds of hesitation (not major), so I have my fingers crossed with Balki's thoughts.

    What issue haunted you kinroh?
    bigwal

    2002 206 GTi

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||

    2004 206 GTi 180 1999 206 GTi (the missus')

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! kinroh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwal View Post
    What issue haunted you kinroh?
    last winter i used to get anitpollution/catalytic converter fault messages almost on a daily basis, never had any problems though so i ignored it but it was annoying.

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Geez- hopefully it won't get that bad! I've been pretty lucky so far with this car- I've had some pretty standard things go wrong like engine mounts, control arms and the like but electrically... minor stuff... touch wood...

    I'll post back when I have more.
    bigwal

    2002 206 GTi

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||

    2004 206 GTi 180 1999 206 GTi (the missus')

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! kinroh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwal View Post
    Geez- hopefully it won't get that bad! I've been pretty lucky so far with this car- I've had some pretty standard things go wrong like engine mounts, control arms and the like but electrically... minor stuff... touch wood...

    I'll post back when I have more.

    yeh its bad...could you detail what happened with the engine mounts and front control arms? like how much it cost to fix? because mine are on the way out now. lol

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    In chronological order:

    - The drivers side engine mount going felt like the engine was about to fall out every single time I went over a pump- The mount had sheared in which I laughed when I saw it but in hindsight probably not real good for the car
    - The lower mount felt like the engine rocked slightly when changing gear. The easiest way to also explain is that the car would shake more than normal when going over the cats-eye reflector things on the road
    - The passenger side engine mount feels (still haven't fixed it) makes the engine rock when starting, and when stopping the engine. I reckon it also makes the clutch shudder more than the standard 206 clutch shudder when taking off
    - The control arms felt like a shudder when taking off with the wheels turned slightly, and a rattle felt through the steering wheel when gong over small bumps, like driveways.

    The problem is that all the shakes and shudders and quite similar. Once I got one thing fixed it highlighted another shake and shudder. Chin up though- pay close attention to the symptoms and the whereabouts of the sounds and movement and hopefully you'll be able to pick up what part.

    Hope this helps.
    bigwal

    2002 206 GTi

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||

    2004 206 GTi 180 1999 206 GTi (the missus')

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Unless there is a genuine mechanical issue, some of the things you describe could be attributed to.....

    Fuel pressure regulator getting ready to cack it's dacks. This may allow all pressure to drain off the fuel rail and take some time to crank up from sitting for a long time. Here's an easy way to test that out. Leave the car for as long as you normally to, crank it while someone shoots some aerostart up the air cleaner. If the engine fires more quickly than it does normally, then you may have been lacking fuel on a cold start.

    If the aerostart makes no difference, then fuel isn't likely to be the problem so probably not the pump or the pressure regulator.

    Next candidate is the O2 sensor. If your's is the same as mine (and I don't know) then your O2 sensor has a heater that bring the element up to temperature quickly so that it can determine the narrow band excess O2. If the heating element or supply circuit is faulty then the O2 sensor will only operate correctly once the exhaust system is hot. There are probably 2 plugs for a total of 4 wires on your O2 sensor, one pair is the sensing element and will run to the ECU, the other pair are a regulated voltage to the heating element. Disconnect the heating element supply and do a cold start, see if it makes any difference. Check for continuity on the sensor side and correct volts on the supply wires.

    If you are tempted to remove the O2 sensor and clean, do it very carefully, any damage on the sensor element will render it useless. However, if this proves to be the problem, once you have it out you are half way through replacing it. If you fit a new one, shoot it into your local tuner afterwards to check that the tune is good and exhaust O2 is on the mark.

    If none of these do any good, take a look at the supplementary air device. This is often referred to as a stepper motor and opens to allow air to bypass the throttle body for cold start conditions when the ECU adds additional fuel to the injection system for cold start enrichment. The supplementary air device allows enough air through to get combustion conditions right for rich firing. This also gives you the characteristic start response where once the engine fires the revs pick up to mabye 1500 and then drop back to your cold idle speed (900?) as it clears the initial rich mixture and then removes excess air.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by racing405; 17th April 2012 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Can't spell.
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  15. #15
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I think first candidate for most of these issues should be the battery, if it's not been changed before.

    There's quite a history of less than stellar batteries causing fuel delivery issues on cold starts.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    hi again,

    Firstly, I haven't finalised the cold-start issue, but that's the next plan on the list. Will replace the coolant tempurature sensor, as there are various symptoms that are pointing towards this, and then the fuel filter as i doubt this has ever been replaced.

    I understand it may seem like i'm throwing money at it, but not really- these are minor costs in the scheme of things and I'm learning about how engines work in more detail.

    Don't ask the missus what she thinks.

    Anyway, finally got around to fixing the gearbox mount, and I must say there is a huge difference. No engine jumping at startup, little to no clutch shudder (which was the gearbox jumping around) and overall smoother ride.

    Basically, I have had all engine mounts replaced and the lower control arms, and I reckon it's running better than even when we bought the old girl a few years ago.

    Thanks again all.

    bigwal
    bigwal

    2002 206 GTi

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||

    2004 206 GTi 180 1999 206 GTi (the missus')

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    dont even bother spending a CENT on it until you have a fault code, ifs and buts make light work of your wallet
    The wrong oil is better than no oil at all.

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Agreed Capago, although the fuel filter needs to be done anyway (don't think it has ever been changed), and the CTS can be replaced for a couple of bucks when I do the coolant.

    MAP sensor, crank sensor, fuel pump relay,etc are another story and beyond the two things I mentioned I won't go any further on my own with it.

    Think of it as preventative maintenance
    bigwal

    2002 206 GTi

    |||||||||||||||||||||||||

    2004 206 GTi 180 1999 206 GTi (the missus')

  19. #19
    Tadpole
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    Mine is similar and the (Euro specialist) mechanic who fixed my exhaust recently said it needs a new battery, supporting SLC206's suggestion above.

    I have read before (maybe here) that the first sign of a fading battery in a 206 is a string of dubious sensor faults.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Capago's Avatar
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    true that too, on the newer ones faults are logged for undervoltage, but namely in the airbags and abs ecu's
    The wrong oil is better than no oil at all.

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme H View Post
    Mine is similar and the (Euro specialist) mechanic who fixed my exhaust recently said it needs a new battery, supporting SLC206's suggestion above.
    Following this up now that I have changed the battery.
    The beeps and warnings have stopped, the car starts better, and to my surprise it runs more smoothly at low speed and light load.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! kinroh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme H View Post
    Following this up now that I have changed the battery.
    The beeps and warnings have stopped, the car starts better, and to my surprise it runs more smoothly at low speed and light load.
    I dont understand why the battery is so central to all these problems, i know it fixes it.. but shouldnt the alternator be responsible for current to the spark plug? or does that only apply to pre muxed cars?

  23. #23
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme H View Post
    Following this up now that I have changed the battery.
    The beeps and warnings have stopped, the car starts better, and to my surprise it runs more smoothly at low speed and light load.
    Thanks for getting back to us, Graeme.

    I know they are not cheap, but if you'll pardon the pun there seems to be a lot of resistance to changing the battery on these cars.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

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