Peugeot 308 1.6 hdi Depollution Failure
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Peugeot 308 1.6 Depollution Failure

    Today, just one month after the three-year warranty has run out, our car showed a Depollution failure message.

    Our car is a 2008/09 touring 1.6L turbo petrol model. It has done about 40,000K.

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    I have been googling all day, and have found some useful threads to follow.
    So far I have checked for obvious signs around the engine, such as loose clips, etc. The only thing that I have noticed is a missing nut (which may not be needed anyway!!!). I have attached a photo anyway, just to make sure.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was going to do the following

    1- Buy fuel injector cleaners and run it through and do some high revs, and see if it does any good

    2- Check the depollution sensor as mentioned in Depollution system fault, Peugeot 307 HDI

    3- Find a decent mechanic. I have lost all hope on the pugeot service in parramatta. They are incompetent, to put it politely. As far I have come to know them, they are a bunch of low-paid kids that all they can do is go by the service manual. Anything out of the ordinary and they are in deep $H%T. The workshop owner is the one ripping the benefits, and probably doesn't need experienced guys that would ask for more money.

    4- As soon as this is fixed put the car for sale. This is the third "major" issue with the car, every time taking a week or so to get fixed. The first was a software corruption problem, which was happening continuosly, then the plastic bit around the gear stick was getting stuck, then the timing went completely off with very erratic behavour, and half the engine had to be replaced, and now this one. These are in addition to a dozen minor issues, like the sun visor falling off while driving in F3, or all the trim coming off around the back seat, or a corrupted remote key that had to be replaced.
    I would consider one major issue and a few minor ones my bad luck, but this many for a brand new car??!!!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Going back to the problem, I know that this particular problem seems to be a common one, with many underlying issues. I appreciate it if anyone has any other suggestions that I could do before going to a mechanic.

    In case I cannot get this fixed using DIY recommendations, does anyone know of a competent mechanic around the Sydney-NorthWest area (epping/eastwood/castle hill/parramatta/ etc) that knows Pugs like the back of his hands !?

    Thanks
    amx
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peugeot 308 1.6 hdi Depollution Failure-pug_308_missing_nut.jpg  
    Last edited by amx1345; 13th April 2012 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Fixed title

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    One month after warranty has run out I would visit the dealer and ask them to see what they can do. I have done this previously with another make of car and they rectified it under warranty after talking to the parent company.

    Admittedly the car had been serviced during warranty by the same dealer the whole time.

    Is this the case with you? Has a dealer done the servicing during the warranty period.

    Fuel injector cleaner will have absolutely no effect on the defect. A long run with sustained high speed may help though.
    Regards,

    Garth.


    Fixin' Cit's and got the shits.

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  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Yes, I have taken it to the parramatta service all the time, and the last service was in January.
    I may give them a call, but I haven't had a positive experience with them during warrany. I am just worried that they may break more.

    Do petrol engines use a similar fluid to Eolys as the diesel engines? Could this be a fluid run out?

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    BTW: Any ideas about that missing nut?

  5. #5
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    I cant really help at all. Stories like these really turn me off buying a newer pug. Which is a pity, because I really would like to get one eventually.

  6. #6
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Tricky title - you don't have an HDi

    So, you've had a timing failure in the past and they fixed it by replacing the tensioner, guides, chain, etc.?

    I know you are reticent to return there, but it might be that the timing is out once again - and if they've already fixed it once it would be a good idea to suggest that they fix it properly. At the least they may make a request to Peugeot Australia and they may surprise you, if you've always had the car serviced there.

    Firstly, I would try the decent run suggested by XM Mechanic first. Pollution faults usually need two or three "good" starts before the fault clears by itself.

    It doesn't use any special fluid like the diesel - but that brings up another possible cause. The direct injection petrol engine does have a tendency to coke up the valves - especially if it hasn't had decent fuel and oil and doesn't get many long runs. They (Parramatta) may suggest the valve cleaning procedure be done.

    Essentially, this involves spraying some goop down the inlet and letting it soak for a bit and then repeating the procedure.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2007 207 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Default Peugeot 308 1.6 Depollution Failure Reply to Thread

    Thanks Simon,

    First the good news is that it has cleared up.

    Back to the questions.

    I will see if I can fix the title. It is a byproduct of googling too much!

    Yes, they said that they changed quite a few things to rectify the timing problem. Although no written document as to the work details, just mentioning a timing fault and that it was fixed. The symptoms then were that the car would intermittently refuse to accelerate, without any messages popping up.

    Since yesterday I have tried the high rev'ing the car to 3000-6000rpm for about 10 second and repeated it for around 5 times. I did it when the car had warmed up. I found a busy industrial area to avoid annoying the neighbors.

    As I said the fault is now cleared up, and the message doesn't come and the engine symbol is turned off. So all is good for now.

    I called Peugeot Australia, and they said that I better go back to the dealer, i.e. trivett, and their service in parramatta. It seems like I don't need to go through them for now.

    What you mentioned about the car doing only short runs around the town fits our car's usage case. Fuel wise, we have been using only Shell/BP/Caltex 98 octane fuels at all times. Just once or twice we used the 95 octane where the station didn't have any 98, but that was about a year ago.

    Thanks
    AMX

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Doush_504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amx1345 View Post

    Since yesterday I have tried the high rev'ing the car to 3000-6000rpm for about 10 second and repeated it for around 5 times. I did it when the car had warmed up. I found a busy industrial area to avoid annoying the neighbors.


    What you mentioned about the car doing only short runs around the town fits our car's usage case. Fuel wise, we have been using only Shell/BP/Caltex 98 octane fuels at all times. Just once or twice we used the 95 octane where the station didn't have any 98, but that was about a year ago.

    Thanks
    AMX
    It's not a matter of revving it in N, it's a matter of giving it an occasional thrash on the highway, it helps a lot .
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (244 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (11000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (170 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (85 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (187 000 Km)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (153 000 Km)

    All since new


  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Unfortunately, it happened again this morning. The first time in the morning it showed the message and was refusing to go uphill. Then a couple of hours later (not being used), it was still showing the message, but would not go into limp mode. After half of an hour of drive around town, the light turned off.

    I bought a bottle of Total Fuel System Cleaner fluid and fed it in.

    There seems to be a correlation between the car being cold and the problem appearing. This could either be because something isn't working well when cold or when humid (morning dew).

    Does anyone know of a good source about how this Depollution system works, and in particular the sensor that is used to measure this. If the sensor is measuring oxygen levels, and there is anything wrong in the fuel system that does not let a good burn, then this can trigger this problem.

    The whole idea of the depollution system using only one element of the final result of the combustion process (i.e. exhaust gases), is like analyzing stool to see if you are healthy. Imaging if we were going to test every one's crap and send them to hospital if only one element in there was not within range. "merde d'ingénierie françaises".

    I will monitor the behaviour and report back. But it would be nice to understand this why the monkeys got this wrong!

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    It happened again this morning. In the morning I left it for about 5 minutes, and the lights didn't come up, but as soon as I started driving, withing about 20 seconds it came up, and went straight into limp mode. I drove back. Turned off, and back on again. The light was still on, but didn't go into limp mode, and I drove to work (half an hour).

    It is still driving on the tank with the fuel cleaning system additive.

    Not much fun really.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    No No. Leave it as long as possible so it is well and truly passed the end of the warranty period before you take it to the dealer. (Yes that is sarcasm).

    Take it to Trivett and let them talk to Peugeot Australia to see if they can help you. Try not to let too much water go under the bridge. Fuel additive / thrashing / posting on Aussiefrogs is not going to rectify the defect.

    No I don't work for the dealer and don't particularly like any of them working on my cars, but you will have to with this defect, unless you get someone with a diagnostic computer to plug it in.
    Regards,

    Garth.


    Fixin' Cit's and got the shits.

    '94 XM V6 Series 2
    '74 GS Club
    '74 GS Convertisseur
    In the family
    '51 Traction
    '08 C5 HDi Series III
    '02 406 HDi Wagon

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Default fixing 1.6 petrol management light with cable ties

    If all the logical fixes are leading nowhere you could try this. I had a 1.6 Citroen Xsara which kept showing the engine management warning for no particular reason. Eventually I found various vacuum hoses were leaking causing the spurious messages. By working my way through the hoses and tightening the joints I reduced the frequncy of the problem and eventually elliminated them completely. The last issue was a hose that moved during sharp cornering and pulled slightly loose. My theory is those hoses will also be involved in the Depollution processes on your more modern car. The only parts I used were cable ties.

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    Thanks lauriel for the suggestion. I have done "basic" checking of the hoses, but as I don't know my way around the engine well enough, I was hesitant to turn every possible screw.

    I am going to order the service manual (there are some floating around on ebay).
    That way I won't be totally blind around the engine, give that it is really hard to get to a some parts involved in this (like EGR valve, and the sensor itself).

    Just an update on the fault. It seems that it is temperature related. Since the fault started showing, all mornings it has shown up, except today (26C in Sydney). I also noticed that regardless of how long I drive it, or how many times I turn it on and off, the fault cleared around mid day/afternoon.
    So there is a correlation with the outside temperature. This might point to the sensor being faulty, as apparently it is outside (I don't know exactly where, but hopefully will find out when I get the service manual).

    Another observation is that in the morning the temperature indicator did not move for about 5 minutes, which I thought was a bit too long. So I turned off and back on and it immediately started moving and reached about 50C withing 10 seconds. So maybe the engine temperature sensors are stuck.

    So still some trial and errors to be done to find a repeatable pattern and hopefully pinpoint the fault.

    ----------------
    Hi XM Mechanic,

    I will probably take it to them sometime. The problem with those mob is that you will never know what the exact fault was, and given how wide this fault is, I don't think they would have a clear clue either. From googling around I have seen many presumably fixed cases that have shown up the fault the next day.

    If I had a bit of trust in those guys, I wouldn't be asking for help here.
    ----------------

  14. #14
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    Hi Amx. Gotta say that I kinda agree with XM mechanic. Despite the fact that the fault can mean many things. When plugged into the proper software, like "Peugeot planet " the computer can locate the exact problem that if causing the issue. For example, my car ( 206 gti180) is also showing a pollution fault. I took it to my mechanic, who plugged it into peugeot planet, and it immedeately diagnosed a faulty exhaust sensor ( which I have chosen to ignore as the car is running fine, and it has taken enough of my money for a while).
    The moral of the story is, "Depollution faults can mean many things, but the proper software should nail the problem straight away. Otherwise you are just finding more variables that might be a problem.
    Good luck with the car.

  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    Default [SOLVED] Peugeot 308 1.6 hdi Depollution Failure

    I took the car the day after this to Peugeot service and they fixed the problem on "good will".
    Took a couple of days to get approval from Peugeot Australia, but it was eventually done.
    The problem was the timing. Since then it has been driving like a horse!
    Last edited by amx1345; 5th November 2012 at 09:17 PM.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    Thanks for letting us know how it worked out.

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