1998 D8 406 SV speedo issue
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  1. #1
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    Default 1998 D8 406 SV speedo issue

    I've raisd this before and nothing I've done so far seems to have sorted the problem

    The speedo has an intermittant problem. Sometimes it works, sometimes the needle fluctuates widlly between 0 and about 80/90 (even if I'm doing 60 or 70). When this happens it affects the steering (there's an electrical connection on the steering column), and the engine hunts somewhat - the car hops. I'ts quite frightening actually. Problem goes away above 80/9- kmh.

    I've taken the speedo out to check for dry joints, and soldered every one - 1 was a liitle bit off. The odometer still works as it always did, so it's not the gearbox sensor (unless perhaps it's only partly working). The Haynes manual doesnt seem to have the wiring for the D8 V6 stuff this car has. I've tried to see if things like running with the lights on, etc

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    I think perhaps it's something to do with the ECU. It was replaced in 2008, so perhaps it might have happened before - I can't find out any history.

    Does anyone know whether the speedo, steering and engine control all run through the ECU? Also does anyone know who can remap (is that the right word) them? I bought a matching 2nd hand ECU on Ebay, but the car doesnt start with it.

    The car also hiccups about 5 mins from cold, sometimes it seems like on different cylinders, which I suspect is linked to the same problem. Someone suggested the coil pack, but I can't see how that would do that.

    If I take it to the dealers, I might spend bucketloads of cash and get nowhere. I don't have much confidence in this aspect of their work.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Totally off topic but my 407 just started to do the speedo wobble!!
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  3. #3
    con
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    Default Wobble

    Gerry,

    If you go through your Pugilist articles for 2008, you may find the answer to your problem.



    con...

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    I asked for similar info-some kindly responses but - some of which was spoken of made absolutely no-sense to me.Things were spoken of that to me were non existent & sounded like I was working on a 403-404-504 etc..Maybe 'the language has changed'

    So I am sincerely hoping that the truth comes to the surface.

    Pekay.

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    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    There is a sensor, a speed sensor I guess, under the steering wheel/column that controls the 406 speedo & other things. I would start from there, if I were you.

    Check the transducer on the gearbox, incase its loosing contact with the component. Though the odometer might be working, but you never can tell.

    Ikenna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    Gerry,

    If you go through your Pugilist articles for 2008, you may find the answer to your problem.



    con...
    I've gone through all except September which I havent found yet. This one seems to be lost. Can anyone find it and send me PM?
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut1 View Post
    Does anyone know whether the speedo, steering and engine control all run through the ECU? Also does anyone know who can remap (is that the right word) them? I bought a matching 2nd hand ECU on Ebay, but the car doesnt start with it.
    I don't know about the steering, but if its like other pugs of that age the speed sensor will run though the ECU.
    Also the computers are security coded, so if you try to change one computer, it must be re-coded to the other computers in the car. (or you could change all the computers).

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    it does have the sounds of a really bad earth if more than just one item is being affected
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  9. #9
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    Well, the problem is now fixed. Con sent me an article which I have reproduced below. The new part fixed all the problems and the car is running smoothly at last and I can read the speedo all the way through the range.

    "
    My 1998 406 SV started to display an erratic speedo needle and partial loss of power steering.

    After reading the workshop manual it became clear that the voltage out of the gearbox sensor is proportional to the road speed. Presumably this signal is “massaged” by system’s computer and is then transmitted to a control interface box from where it is feed to drive the speedometer in the console.

    The first thing to check was the gearbox sensor. To check if the gearbox sensor is working you will need a power drill and a voltmeter.

    The gearbox sensor is located in the top of the automatic gearbox (the manual version is similar). To get to the sensor you need to work from underneath the car. The sensor body is held to the gearbox via a single bolt. On top of the sensor is a 2 pin female connector Disconnect the AMP connector being careful not to lose the connector clip. Remove the bolt.

    There are two types, a 2 pin connector and a 3 pin connector version. Take the sensor out carefully (don't lose the o-ring) and check that the plastic gears are all intact. Clean the contacts and then connect the voltmeter across the (spade) connectors. In my case it was the 2 connector type, so there was no guessing which terminals to use.

    Using a power drill "spin it up"; checking to see if the output voltage rises steadily.
    Re-install the sensor and take the car for a drive. If the speedo and or the steering is still playing then the problem is elsewhere.

    In my case it turned out to be a speedo control unit (part no: 1929.SJ) which is located behind the glovebox (LHS). It is black, about the size of a cigarette packet and is manufactured by Bitron in Italy. . Cost of the replacement is about $150-. "


    My car's problem was the speed control unit, as was Con's. Thanks to Con and others in PCCNSW for the information
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    I fixed mine on the weekend - with soldering the dry joints on the cluster. I'll post up a DIY guide later!
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

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    shouldaboughtahonda

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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED View Post
    I fixed mine on the weekend - with soldering the dry joints on the cluster. I'll post up a DIY guide later!
    Rather a slow job I found. But at least once done it shouldn't need doing later on.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikenna351 View Post
    There is a sensor, a speed sensor I guess, under the steering wheel/column that controls the 406 speedo & other things. I would start from there, if I were you.

    Check the transducer on the gearbox, incase its loosing contact with the component. Though the odometer might be working, but you never can tell.

    Ikenna.
    This thread may be stale, but here goes...
    How do I know if my V6 is D8 or D9? Its 1998 and doesn't have the added horizontal colour strip on the tail light cluster, or the added headrest in the rear.

    Problems with speedo/odometer and power steering

    Speedo

    1. speedo needle started flickering on occasions instead of holding steady
    2. regularly now the needle remains on 0
    3. whenever the needle is on 0 the odometer does not record change in distance travelled
    4. occasionally the needle comes to ‘life’ but only when speed seems to reach approx 40kph, and
    5. when the car slows below this speed, instead of the needle gliding to 0, it flicks to 0 immediately as if it has switched off
    6. whether or not point 4 occurs, when speed seems to reach over 70kph – on the motorway – the needle often comes to life and records the speed and the odometer starts to record distance


    Power steering

    1. I noticed that the power steering occasionally and randomly feels lighter than normal at normal travel speeds in urban and open road driving
    2. It seems to coincide with the state of the speedo
    3. when the needle is not operating the steering feels light
    4. when the needle resumes normal operation the steering also resumes its normal weight
    5. at very slow speeds – e.g turning on my property – there is no noticeable extra lightness in the steering



    1. I am guessing that the two problems have one cause.
    2. by my reasoning, the electronics have been fed incorrect data suggesting the car is not moving
      1. the needle therefore is not activated
      2. greater power assist is generated



    1. when the data is correctly transmitted to the electronics
      1. the needle is active
      2. the amount of power assist appropriate to the speed is generated


    possibly related?

    1. cruise control does not work although the light on the switch itself lights when the switch is activated
    2. periodically there is a random rapid clicking sound of the indicators from the instrument console although no lights or indicators are activated by this. Indicators operate normally when stalk is moved up or down.
    3. maybe my Peugeot is haunted

    Any suggestions would be welcome...

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IainB View Post
    This thread may be stale, but here goes...
    How do I know if my V6 is D8 or D9? Its 1998 and doesn't have the added horizontal colour strip on the tail light cluster, or the added headrest in the rear.

    Problems with speedo/odometer and power steering

    Speedo

    1. speedo needle started flickering on occasions instead of holding steady
    2. regularly now the needle remains on 0
    3. whenever the needle is on 0 the odometer does not record change in distance travelled
    4. occasionally the needle comes to ‘life’ but only when speed seems to reach approx 40kph, and
    5. when the car slows below this speed, instead of the needle gliding to 0, it flicks to 0 immediately as if it has switched off
    6. whether or not point 4 occurs, when speed seems to reach over 70kph – on the motorway – the needle often comes to life and records the speed and the odometer starts to record distance


    Power steering

    1. I noticed that the power steering occasionally and randomly feels lighter than normal at normal travel speeds in urban and open road driving
    2. It seems to coincide with the state of the speedo
    3. when the needle is not operating the steering feels light
    4. when the needle resumes normal operation the steering also resumes its normal weight
    5. at very slow speeds – e.g turning on my property – there is no noticeable extra lightness in the steering



    1. I am guessing that the two problems have one cause.
    2. by my reasoning, the electronics have been fed incorrect data suggesting the car is not moving
      1. the needle therefore is not activated
      2. greater power assist is generated



    1. when the data is correctly transmitted to the electronics
      1. the needle is active
      2. the amount of power assist appropriate to the speed is generated


    possibly related?

    1. cruise control does not work although the light on the switch itself lights when the switch is activated
    2. periodically there is a random rapid clicking sound of the indicators from the instrument console although no lights or indicators are activated by this. Indicators operate normally when stalk is moved up or down.
    3. maybe my Peugeot is haunted

    Any suggestions would be welcome...
    Yours is D8.

    D8 speedometer is controlled by 2 things: The vehicle speed sensor/transducer on the bellhousing/gearbox and the interface box under/behind glove box.

    You can start with replacing the transducer. If it continues, then replace the interface box.

    Ikenna

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IainB View Post
    This thread may be stale, but here goes...
    How do I know if my V6 is D8 or D9? Its 1998 and doesn't have the added horizontal colour strip on the tail light cluster, or the added headrest in the rear.

    Problems with speedo/odometer and power steering

    Speedo

    1. speedo needle started flickering on occasions instead of holding steady
    2. regularly now the needle remains on 0
    3. whenever the needle is on 0 the odometer does not record change in distance travelled
    4. occasionally the needle comes to ‘life’ but only when speed seems to reach approx 40kph, and
    5. when the car slows below this speed, instead of the needle gliding to 0, it flicks to 0 immediately as if it has switched off
    6. whether or not point 4 occurs, when speed seems to reach over 70kph – on the motorway – the needle often comes to life and records the speed and the odometer starts to record distance


    Power steering

    1. I noticed that the power steering occasionally and randomly feels lighter than normal at normal travel speeds in urban and open road driving
    2. It seems to coincide with the state of the speedo
    3. when the needle is not operating the steering feels light
    4. when the needle resumes normal operation the steering also resumes its normal weight
    5. at very slow speeds – e.g turning on my property – there is no noticeable extra lightness in the steering



    1. I am guessing that the two problems have one cause.
    2. by my reasoning, the electronics have been fed incorrect data suggesting the car is not moving
      1. the needle therefore is not activated
      2. greater power assist is generated




    1. when the data is correctly transmitted to the electronics
      1. the needle is active
      2. the amount of power assist appropriate to the speed is generated



    possibly related?

    1. cruise control does not work although the light on the switch itself lights when the switch is activated
    2. periodically there is a random rapid clicking sound of the indicators from the instrument console although no lights or indicators are activated by this. Indicators operate normally when stalk is moved up or down.
    3. maybe my Peugeot is haunted

    Any suggestions would be welcome...
    Not an uncommon issue with the D8, as above it will either be the gearbox sensor or a black box behind the glovebox. I would start with the latter as it is much easier to access.

    The car will have speed sensitive power steering, if it isn't getting a reading on the speedo it will assume you're not moving and will lighten the steering accordingly. When the speedo comes alive it weights up again.
    '92 BX 16Valve (Bathurst 12 Hr edition)
    '93 BX 16Valve (Bathurst 12 Hr edition)
    '01 406 Coupe 3.0L V6 Manual

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by IainB View Post
    This thread may be stale, but here goes...
    How do I know if my V6 is D8 or D9? Its 1998 and doesn't have the added horizontal colour strip on the tail light cluster, or the added headrest in the rear.

    Problems with speedo/odometer and power steering

    Speedo

    1. speedo needle started flickering on occasions instead of holding steady
    2. regularly now the needle remains on 0
    3. whenever the needle is on 0 the odometer does not record change in distance travelled
    4. occasionally the needle comes to ‘life’ but only when speed seems to reach approx 40kph, and
    5. when the car slows below this speed, instead of the needle gliding to 0, it flicks to 0 immediately as if it has switched off
    6. whether or not point 4 occurs, when speed seems to reach over 70kph – on the motorway – the needle often comes to life and records the speed and the odometer starts to record distance


    Power steering

    1. I noticed that the power steering occasionally and randomly feels lighter than normal at normal travel speeds in urban and open road driving
    2. It seems to coincide with the state of the speedo
    3. when the needle is not operating the steering feels light
    4. when the needle resumes normal operation the steering also resumes its normal weight
    5. at very slow speeds – e.g turning on my property – there is no noticeable extra lightness in the steering



    1. I am guessing that the two problems have one cause.
    2. by my reasoning, the electronics have been fed incorrect data suggesting the car is not moving
      1. the needle therefore is not activated
      2. greater power assist is generated



    1. when the data is correctly transmitted to the electronics
      1. the needle is active
      2. the amount of power assist appropriate to the speed is generated


    possibly related?

    1. cruise control does not work although the light on the switch itself lights when the switch is activated
    2. periodically there is a random rapid clicking sound of the indicators from the instrument console although no lights or indicators are activated by this. Indicators operate normally when stalk is moved up or down.
    3. maybe my Peugeot is haunted

    Any suggestions would be welcome...
    Your car is most definitely a D8, so you can put that one to bed. D9 cars came out mid-late 1999.

    My guess is the speed sensor at the gearbox as the cause to the problem (i.e., different to my problem). Sometimes as clean of the plastic gear wheel might provide a short term fix. If this is the case then you should prepare by getting a new one, ready to swap over when it plays up.

    Given your explanation of problems, I think that all of these problems are a result of mixed messages from the speed (gearbox) sensor (after all in many respects they are not all that dissimilar to the ones I experienced). I hope that everything will go away when the speed sensor is sorted.

    Otherwise it could be exactly the same problem I had. I haven't had a problem since my last post. I have the old box but haven't done anything to it, apart from opening it up.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

  17. #17
    Tadpole
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    Thanks folks. (I've been away for a few weeks so apologise for the late response) I appreciate your replies - most helpful. Before my post here, the workshop talked about first pulling out the instrument cluster to check connections. I'll be getting the transducer checked first as suggested. Difficulty is the lack of new parts availability here in NZ so I'll need to source one from the wreckers.
    Cheers

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