505 horrible starting sound
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  1. #1
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    Default 505 horrible starting sound

    Hi all,

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    everytime i start my 505 there is a horrible sound, it sounds as if two bits of metal are hitting one another and echoing. The sound is continues till the car kicks over (sometimes it struggles). the car is over due for a service so im hoping that just the case however i would like some opinions what it could be?? Either way ill be taking it to someone this week, hopefully its not serious.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    I'd check the voltage on the battery as a first step. If it is less than 12V you might be getting solenoid bounce which makes a loud and rapid metallic clicking noise, though usually if the battery is that dead it won't turn over at all....

    Other than that I guess it could be a worn gear on the starter motor or perhaps the starter not completely engaging with the ring gear on the flywheel...

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

  3. #3
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    I have been having a lot of battery and alternator issues since buying the car, I've notice my battery warning light never turns off even after having my alternator rebuilt few months ago and a new battery put in. im only just learning about cars do i have little idea what im doing. if it is a solenoid issue what should i be doing?

  4. #4
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    Default Battery?

    This does sound like the battery is low. With dropping autumn temps, it's a typical time of year to find the battery is dying. Before you run out and replace it though, it's best to confirm that the battery is being charged properly by the alternator once the engine is running. When the ignition is on before you start the engine, you will see the red battery symbol warning light on (this is just left of the "STOP" warning light on my series 2 505). When you start the car, this light should go out COMPLETELY...look very closely preferably in a darkened conditions without any lights on...if it is even very dimly glowing with the engine idling, the alternator is on its way out and will lead the battery to not be properly charged, hence the starting trouble. If this is the case, rev the engine up a little, you may see the light go out completely when the revs are up, but then come on again very dimly when the engine is brought back to idling. Similarly, you might find the light does go out out, but comes on when the headlights are on high beam (or other high load devices like wipers, fans etc) at idle revs. If any of these are the case, the alternator is just about worn out, but may still generate enough output if the revs are kept up a bit...the light tells the story, whenever it is on, even if only very dimly with the engine running, the alternator's output is not keeping up with the demand of the car's electrical systems, so power is being drawn from the battery when it shouldn't be. If this is so, check that the fan/alternator belt isn't loose, which can cause lower alternator output due to the belt slipping on the alternator pulley. Most likely, if this were so, you would have heard the make a belt squealing noise, particularly at higher revs.
    The most likely culprit is the battery, I would think...if you have a mutlimeter and know how to use it, you can confirm the problem. There are any number of websites that clearly explain how to check a car's battery/alternator system with a multimeter.
    I hope this helps, and please accept my apols if have just been stating the bleeding obvious to you.
    Good luck

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    Bad connections could be the issue. Removing cleaning and replacing the connections to the solenoid may help. Make sure you remove the earth terminal of the battery first though! You don't want to touch a spanner from live to earth on the main solenoid wire!

    However if your battery light is remaining on even after battery replacement and alternator rebuild you probably should be taking it back to the place that did the work. It sounds like maybe it still isn't charging properly. With the engine running the voltage should be at least 13V and up to around 13.8V

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

  6. #6
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    Well when i bought the car the previous owner gave me a list with all the work he had done to the car he had the alternator don replaced back in 2009, when i first got the car it never missed a beat with in a month of driving every day i noticed power problems (battery warning light on even while driving) i bought a brand new battery hoping that was the issue it went back to driving like normal then about a week later while driving home from work my car lost power completely and shut off (while driving, not at a set of lights or in traffic). obviously the car wouldn't start after that as the alternator was completely gone. Both me and the mechanic tried to find a replacement alternator with no luck so he had the one in the car rebuilt, and now im starting to think its the base to all my problems.

  7. #7
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    Default earth

    how douse the starter earth back to the battery ,should be an earth strap from the body or battery going to the block try clamping your jumper lead from the earth terminal [thats neg or black] to the head or block try your starter now see if theres an improvement ,check that the terminals on the ends of the battery leads are connected properly ,they may be getting worm when cranking ,indicates high resistance ,bad earth could also produce your charge light problem ,or take it to an auto spark PUGS

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    All excellent advice; however may I suggest a systematic approach?
    Firstly, if the piggy-bank is not empty, buy a digital multi-meter - quite cheap from Dick Smith or Jaycar. Best to get one that will handle 10amps - many don't.
    If you are not able to start the car, charge the battery - having first removed the negative [-] earth lead.
    Having charged the battery, set your multi-meter onto DC volts and select a voltage above 14volts. Observing polarity, place the probes onto the correct terminal and take note of the battery voltage. Then start the engine and turn the headlights on with high beam. Place the probes across the battery terminals again. The meter read-out should be at least 13 plus volts If so; all's well with the alternator and the problem is the battery.
    If, though, the meter reading is now below your fully charged battery voltage [before you started the engine], suspect cable connections.
    Firstly, keeping the DC volts set as before, place the positive [+] probe on the alternator body and the negative [-] one onto the battery negative terminal. Any reading above a couple of millivolts indicates a bad earth connection between the engine and chassis/battery. [The alternator body supplies the earth return - there is no wired connection]. That situation would also explain why the starter is not utilising full battery voltage.
    If you are careful, you can also place the probes between the alt. + terminal and the batt. + post and observe the reading. Again, above millivolts indicates bad connections.
    Pavel

  9. #9
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    I should have mentioned in the above post that, whilst placing the probes from the alternator to the battery, the motor must be running.
    Watch any loose clothing getting caught in the fan blades.
    Pavel

  10. #10
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    Default Battery light on

    This extra info you've supplied regarding the battery light never going out changes things...this isn't a battery problem, it's a charging thing. Assuming the fan belt isn't slipping and battery terminal connections are good, the 2 likely most candidates for your problems:

    1/. Alternator rebuild was not successful or its regulator is damaged,
    and/or
    2/. Alternator wiring connections not correct, loose or broken.

    Before you fiddle around with any of this, disconnect the battery terminals, -ve first off then +ve terminal (reconnect is vice versa).
    On series 2 505s, the alternator output wire (the heaviest wire connection on the alternator, held on a terminal post on the back of the alt with a nut) connects to the power supply post on the starter motor solenoid; attached to the same post is the heavy duty power lead to the battery +ve terminal. Check these connections are tight as they can easily work loose. Check the wire connections on the alternator are not loose or broken. If the alternator rebuild and refit was done professionally, you should take it back and get them to sort it. If you or a mate fitted the alternator, check it's connected correctly. The connections are not too complicated (you can read up a bit online or ask for help on this site), but if you can't work them out for sure, get someone who knows what they're doing to sort it out. If something was not connected correctly, or if the engine has been run with the battery disconnected even for a short time, this may have damaged the alternator's regulator...I hope this isn't the case.
    The starter motor is earthed within its own body (this is not the source of your problems) to the bell housing /engine block which in turn has the heavy duty earth lead connection to the -ve terminal of the battery; it'd be a good idea to check the -ve lead is well connected by following the heavy duty lead from the -ve battery terminal end down onto the engine block and check this connection is clean and tight.

  11. #11
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    Thanks to everyone who helped me out with this, did some of the thinks advise worked out its most likely the starter motor and alternator. Since the last post the car won't start at all, it wants to kick over but all i get is the grinding metal sound so I've booked it in for some work. Ironically the only person who helped me out move it was a bloke who's pugeout just broke down i guess he knew my pain Haha. once again thanks to everyone who gave me some feedback much appreciated!

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