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Thread: Annoying stick!

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Default Annoying stick!

    I have replaced all the plastic balljoints in the gearshift linkages with proper balljoints (like these http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p...rings/1988951/) but still have a large amount of play for and aft in every gear. Gear selection is light with discernible positive feedback, but I wonder if the mechanism can be a little tighter? I don't have high hopes it will ever be as tight as say one my old BMWs, but a bit less wobble would be nice.

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    There is little sideways play, I am quite happy with that.

    Anyone got any ideas what to do?

    One more thing. There seems to be a lot of play in the gearbox itself, not much I can do about that.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I have replaced all the plastic balljoints in the gearshift linkages with proper balljoints (like these http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p...rings/1988951/) but still have a large amount of play for and aft in every gear. Gear selection is light with discernible positive feedback, but I wonder if the mechanism can be a little tighter? I don't have high hopes it will ever be as tight as say one my old BMWs, but a bit less wobble would be nice.

    There is little sideways play, I am quite happy with that.

    Anyone got any ideas what to do?

    One more thing. There seems to be a lot of play in the gearbox itself, not much I can do about that.
    The nylon rod ends ones always have more play than the brass /stainless ones.

    I hope you didn't pay what the link states.

    I bought half a dozen in stainless/brass for $10 each from the boss of the company and paid cash.

    I've found RS always try to ream you out.

    Probably not much good to you anyway, I'm in Vic.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Didn't buy those, I actually got mine from a bearing place, and indeed they are bronze type. Just used the link for reference. They look like really good balljoints and tried them for play in hand, didn't have any at all, so I am sure there's nothing to do with the balljoints. The box as I said has probably worn synchro hubs which is why the sideways play is there in the first place, but I am thinking maybe I can resize the lever arms (think like a R/C servo horn) such that the stick will not wobble that much anymore. I suppose I can make my own levers with shorter arms but am a bit too lazy for that.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
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    How about the bush in the l shaped gear linkage piece thing? The one mounted on the subframe. Could that have play?
    205 GTi T16

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    It sure can, but in my case it did not.

    Checking where the play is, I followed the linkages all the way to the box and all the play (well, almost all of it) is in the box, in the internals. The levers move way too much after gears are selected. Now in the big scheme of french things, this is not unexpected, but my wife's mi16 has a very little play (by french standards) at the gear stick.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 15th March 2012 at 02:42 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
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    Ohh i see....
    205 GTi T16

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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    How did you attach the rod ends to the various linkages?

    Did you also do the bottom of the gearstick?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    How did you attach the rod ends to the various linkages?

    Did you also do the bottom of the gearstick?
    I had threaded hexagon female inserts welded nicely to the tubes. The short link rods I have replaced with solid bar, threaded internally (M6) on my lathe. I have adjusted everything such that the balljoints are screwed in flush (no thread exposed for fear that it might create weak links, even though M6 should be solid enough) and I used Loctite stud lock (no disassembly possible without heat) on all threads. The eyes of the balls are attached with allen head bolts, M6 again, grade 8 with nylock nuts. Trust me, all the joints are as solid as you'd like them to be. there's absolutely no play there or any risk of things coming apart.

    What are we talking about at the bottom? the long linkage that attaches with a ball to the tail of the stick? Yes I did that too. Like I said, all the balljoints are good quality bronze balljoints.

    As for the pushrod that attaches above the gearstick pivoting ball, I checked it for wear, play and greased all those washers and stuff and put it back as it didn't have any wear or play.

    Let me tell you this. If you wobble the stick (in gear) for and aft, you can see all the linkages moving without play all the way to the box lever which can move about 1cm freely before any resistance is felt (this is probably play in the forks, or the synchro hub rings, or the synchro hubs themselves, so all internal g'box play). At the stick, this 1cm of play translates into about 10cm (gearstick top). Of course, I can shorten the stick but I don't want that.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I had threaded hexagon female inserts welded nicely to the tubes. The short link rods I have replaced with solid bar, threaded internally (M6) on my lathe. I have adjusted everything such that the balljoints are screwed in flush (no thread exposed for fear that it might create weak links, even though M6 should be solid enough) and I used Loctite stud lock (no disassembly possible without heat) on all threads. The eyes of the balls are attached with allen head bolts, M6 again, grade 8 with nylock nuts. Trust me, all the joints are as solid as you'd like them to be. there's absolutely no play there or any risk of things coming apart.

    What are we talking about at the bottom? the long linkage that attaches with a ball to the tail of the stick? Yes I did that too. Like I said, all the balljoints are good quality bronze balljoints.

    As for the pushrod that attaches above the gearstick pivoting ball, I checked it for wear, play and greased all those washers and stuff and put it back as it didn't have any wear or play.

    Let me tell you this. If you wobble the stick (in gear) for and aft, you can see all the linkages moving without play all the way to the box lever which can move about 1cm freely before any resistance is felt (this is probably play in the forks, or the synchro hub rings, or the synchro hubs themselves, so all internal g'box play). At the stick, this 1cm of play translates into about 10cm (gearstick top). Of course, I can shorten the stick but I don't want that.
    BE1 gearbox?
    I believe these have more play than the BE3, could be wrong though, Adrian will know.
    My Series 1 certainly has this for aft play.
    Graham

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Oh. Okay.

    Not sure what box, will check.

    Car is 1987 GTI.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Then it should be a BE1 with lift up reverse.....

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Then it should be a BE1 with lift up reverse.....

    It does indeed have a lift-up reverse. Does that positively identify the box as a BE1?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    The eyes of the balls are attached with allen head bolts, M6 again, grade 8 with nylock nuts. Trust me, all the joints are as solid as you'd like them to be. there's absolutely no play there or any risk of things coming apart.
    I use shoulder bolts for this. The shaft is ground to fit precisely in the rod end.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Annoying stick!-rose-jointed-linkages.jpg   Annoying stick!-stainless-steel-shoulder-bolt-366530.jpg  
    Last edited by PeterT; 15th March 2012 at 08:44 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I wanted to use the same type of bolt, Peter, but a M6 bolt like that has a of 7mm shoulder and the balljoint has a 6mm hole. A M5 bolt like that would have the right (6mm) shoulder, but would be a compromise in my eyes in terms of strength. I used instead bolts only partly threaded and I am confident to say they don't play around.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I used Ø6 shaft - M5 thread, no problems. They're 10.8.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    It sure can, but in my case it did not.

    Checking where the play is, I followed the linkages all the way to the box and all the play (well, almost all of it) is in the box, in the internals. The levers move way too much after gears are selected. Now in the big scheme of french things, this is not unexpected, but my wife's mi16 has a very little play (by french standards) at the gear stick.
    You have what the French call:
    réducteur de crème anglaise.

    Check the shims/packing in the selector, a very little movement there will be magnified in the stick. If you can dissemble the selector gate you may be able to pack it out. If there is significant wear in the gate then it’s a case of weld up and file, (old Holden/mini trick).

    Disconnect the levers on the box itself and measure the "play"
    There is not much that can be done inside the box.
    Last edited by Gamma; 16th March 2012 at 10:12 AM.
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    It does indeed have a lift-up reverse. Does that positively identify the box as a BE1?
    Yes.....

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Default Check your nuts!

    Is the nut on the small ball/pivot post that is connected to the cross member tight?
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