205 steering in wrong direction?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Default 205 steering in wrong direction?

    I have complete new front end in my 205 gti.

    1. tie rod ends
    2. suspension arms
    3. sway bar bushes and linkages
    4. rebuilt shocks


    I've also had the steering alignment done, new tyres, balanced....

    But for some reason upon acceleration it will significantly pull towards the left.

    Throttle off and it will re-align itself and steer straight.

    Headache!!!

    Can anyone diagnose this?

    Cheers,

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    Julian

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    Usually worn LCA bushes cause this.
    205gti

  3. #3
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    tourque steer!!

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    I replaced the whole control arm, so new bushes/ball joint etc.

    I wish it were torque steer!

    I'm worried its like a slipping diff or left hand drivshaft...is that at all possible???

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Was your car doing this before renewing the front end ?

    If so time to look at other things eg. loose subframe bolts to body ( 6 in total ), steering rack mount bolts ( 2 of ) , worn hub on LHS, rear beam mounts for possibilty of tracking.

    If it was not what has changed ? You don't say how long ago the front end was done but wishbone bushes have been known to fail in a short period of time. Have you rechecked all bolts especially pinch bolts for tightness and torque settings ? Is one tie rod a lot different length to the other ? etc, etc. Check the simple stuff first before pulling apart diff etc.

    Hope this gives you a start good luck......

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Was your car doing this before renewing the front end ?

    If so time to look at other things eg. loose subframe bolts to body ( 6 in total ), steering rack mount bolts ( 2 of ) , worn hub on LHS, rear beam mounts for possibilty of tracking.

    If it was not what has changed ? You don't say how long ago the front end was done but wishbone bushes have been known to fail in a short period of time. Have you rechecked all bolts especially pinch bolts for tightness and torque settings ? Is one tie rod a lot different length to the other ? etc, etc. Check the simple stuff first before pulling apart diff etc.

    Hope this gives you a start good luck......
    Well I hadn't actually driven it before i started working on it.
    It was a bit of a project car.
    I just got carried away and replaced everything to new.
    I did have the cross member out to do the steering rack, but paid close attention to putting it back on correctly and tight.
    But all bushes and new and haven't been driven...i only noticed it when i drove to the auto-elec for a earth issue i had.

    But it tracks fine until acceleration. But in saying that, it definitely doesn't feel "stable" like my other 205.

    Thank you for the feedback

  7. #7
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    Have you had a wheel alignmet done since the front end refurbishment?
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    He says he did, Exfrogger.

    My 205 GTi has a bit of torque steer but I think it's the other way.

    One thing that comes to mind is to check tire pressures, if everything is good, then move on to checking geometry again. You will find that most shops have no idea what the geometry needs to be and go by ear. I would actually try to get the car to a specialist recommended by your local dealer and make sure they have the correct specs from the dealer. Very few people do and I found when trying to align the front end of my Mi16 that two shops (both allegedly reputable) had completely different readings on the car before anything was adjusted. In despair i went to a local Pug friendly shop to ask where they did their alignment and was pointed to another place where I had a completely different reading taken on the car again! I let them do the alignment and the car still pulled ever so slightly to the left (which is what the problem was in the first place). In the end I just gave up.

    Funny thing though, some bright spark from a very well known nation wide franchise told me the problem was the steering knuckle was bent. Not sure how one would manage to bend a cast steel knuckle on a 405Mi16 though.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Oval hub?

    Steering rack centered?

    Sounds like control arm bushes as said by Chris

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    I did have the cross member out to do the steering rack, but paid close attention to putting it back on correctly and tight.
    Bump steer???

    does it turn right on heavy braking??

    Jo

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Yeah i had the wheel alignment and front end check done before i noticed it.

    Tyre pressure i would assume is good, but i shall double check that.

    It signific antly pulled to the left and aggressively snapped back in line once i released the throttle. After noticing that i aggressively applied the brakes. Seemed to brake fine.

    New on the car are:

    • tie rod ends
    • wishbones/suspension arms/control arms...therefore new lower ball joints and bushes
    • sway bar linages
    • sway bar bushes

    The cars at the Auto-elec for the week, so ill check up on all my work again and see if something comes up not right. I only noticed it driving there!

    But if everything seems square...ill take to to another steering specialist.


    Thanks for the feedback once again.

    Julian

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
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    What about badly worn engine mounts, could they cause that?

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    I have complete new front end in my 205 gti.

    1. tie rod ends
    2. suspension arms
    3. sway bar bushes and linkages
    4. rebuilt shocks


    I've also had the steering alignment done, new tyres, balanced....

    But for some reason upon acceleration it will significantly pull towards the left.

    Throttle off and it will re-align itself and steer straight.

    Headache!!!

    Can anyone diagnose this?

    Cheers,

    Julian
    Check the anti roll bar bolts....

  14. #14
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    Alignment shops try to give the car a slight bias to the right to offset the general road camber to the left. IIRC this is achieved by giving a slightly increased castor angle to the left wheel to give it a marginally stronger self centering tendency. (That said I note my Galant VR4 rally car, which tracks fine under full noise, is set at +2.8 degrees right and +2.2 degrees left, so maybe my understanding is wrong). In McPherson strut setups generally, castor angle cannot be adjusted as it is preset by the manufacturer but it can be disturbed by serious abuse or accident and imperfect repair. Minor corrections can be made by slotting the bolt holes in the turret tops, but larger adjustments require the fitting of offset bushes in the lower control arm which have the effect of moving the lower ball joint fore or aft.

    As a starting point I would obtain the castor readings from your alignment report and ascertain both are within 2-3 degrees positive, if not this may be the root cause of your problem.

    As others have mentioned worn or soft A arm bushes are the first suspects as they allow fore/aft movement of the lower ball joint and thus castor.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
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    Since all joints are new except or steering rack, maybe you ould go extreme and check:

    How about suspenion? Shocks not doing their dampening duties?? Could that cause this?

    Might pay to check the height of the car is the same left and right? You dont know what people do to cars before you buy it! Check to see if there are any noticeble differences in the springs left and right could have disimilar springs?

    How is your rear beam, has one side collapsed? Or seized? Does it creak, how is the alignment of the back?

    I mean obviously check the integrity of your steering rack!
    205 GTi T16

    205 CTi

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Still sounds like LCA bushes. Even though they are new. Have you checked to see there is bolts in all 4 holes ( 2 each side ) actuay holing the arms in place? COuld have missed one? Are they torqued to the correct settings? Is the steering rack centered?

    Most tyer/steering shops are totally incompetent at aligning a shopping trolley wheel. Most of the guys working there are all on speed, have missing teeth and couldnt give a shit wether its straight or not. After you have checked the above, take it to a place that has a great rep in the auto world near you ( I have taken my car to specialist places. Coast about 150$ but was excellent ) and get them to check over it.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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  17. #17
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    Hi-You nmay like to speak to Dave @Qualitools in Geelong-I am sure he will know of someone who knows how to do a proper f/end alignment.If you were in Melbourne I would strongly recommend Joe @ Sims Motors in Brunswick.

    Pekay

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Hi all.

    So I got my 205 GTi back from the auto-elec and went searching for the problems that the front end of my was facing. Lucky enough I discovered the mysterious steering difficulties.

    I did however investigate most of the possible problems that everyone suggested. I checked sub-frame bolts, LCA bushes and sway bar linkages.

    Anyway, whilst putting the drivers side wheel back on I discovered there was a great deal of play (side-to-side).
    THIS WASN'T THE STEERING.

    On closer inspection it seemed to be that the top mount was completely broken and that the d/side wheel was doing what ever it wanted to do! Holy hat!

    So I replaced them with my Koni adjustables that i had rebuilt! Win!

    The thing that gets me riled up is...How on earth did it pass the wheel alignment????

    Thanks for the help froggers!

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post

    [...]

    The thing that gets me riled up is...How on earth did it pass the wheel alignment????

    Thanks for the help froggers!
    Very easily. Not my job.

    They put the car on the rig, hooked up computer and lasers, did the alignment, car off, that'll be 250 thank you very much.

    Oh, top suspension mounts are broken you say? Not my job.

    http://www.sixdegrees.org.au/sites/s...t-My-Job_3.jpg
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    The thing that gets me riled up is...How on earth did it pass the wheel alignment????

    Thanks for the help froggers!
    Dont get Riled, just dont get your wheels aligned there again.

    A wheel alignment is a done on a static car, so wear might not show up.
    BUT.....
    Thats why the service person needs to do a road test to make sure the car does not pull to one side or do anything odd.

    The last alignment I had saw the car leave the workshop for test drives twice.

    When I got the bill the manager apologised for it being more than a standard alignment cost and taking extra time, which saw me wait around.

    I thanked him for taking the initiative to actually perform the task properly and take as long as it took to complete, and gladly paid the small extra fee.

    Jo

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    The last alignment I had saw the car leave the workshop for test drives twice.
    When i got mine back from getting aligned, he said "seems to drive fine'.

    So its driven it. Id hate to see what bad is...

    Ill take it back and get him to give me a print out of the the alignment.

    Alls well that ends well....

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