Distributors for 2lt KF Injection engines....
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Default Distributors for 2lt KF Injection engines....

    Hi All,

    Looking to fit a 123 ignition electronic distributor to an injected 504 engine - currently I do not have a distributor at all for this motor.

    Is it easy-ish to extend the dizzy up to clear the manifolding, or will I need to source an orginal dizzy to butcher? Failing that, if anyone's fitted the 123 unit, how did you surrount the issue?

    Ta

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Hi All,

    Looking to fit a 123 ignition electronic distributor to an injected 504 engine - currently I do not have a distributor at all for this motor.

    Is it easy-ish to extend the dizzy up to clear the manifolding, or will I need to source an orginal dizzy to butcher? Failing that, if anyone's fitted the 123 unit, how did you surrount the issue?

    Ta
    The TI distributors have the drive dog pinned at different angle to the normal distributors. This is to make the vac advance clear the inlet manifold.

    Distributors off different engines have grid lock and there is way around it unless you re-drill the drive dog pin hole.

    An extension allows free and full rotation of any mechanically suitable distributor. It also makes access a lot easier. It's the best way to go in my opinion.

    The fly in the ointment is that unless you make a extension from scratch (think have a good lathe and boring bar) to modify a sacrificial distributor is a pain because the shafts are an odd ball size.

    I'm looking at having some 12mm bar stock ground to the correct diameter (around 11.4 mm) then the extension can be made from an old distributor and a standard aluminium distributor clamp.

  3. #3
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    I have a 123 on my ti and had no issues. From memory I think there are options on how you have the drive on the bottom and you just choose the right one. Similarly you just dial up the right curve (typically M53). In any case it fits and works fine, allowing plenty of adjustment.

    I bought my 123 out of the US on ebay as the $ meant a price of $420-430 landed.

    Cheers

    Jim

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    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    303 - Thanks for that. Sounds like it won't be an issue to just drop it in. BTW, the 123 dizzys are about $380 out of Europe, from Franzose, at the moment.......

    Rob - as always, succinct & considered advice. Thanks. I've actually got an eye half-open for a decent lathe, if I can find one at the right price..... But why do you need to extend your Dizzy? You changed your plans RE manifold? Hope your car is progressing well....

    Rob.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    303 - Thanks for that. Sounds like it won't be an issue to just drop it in. BTW, the 123 dizzys are about $380 out of Europe, from Franzose, at the moment.......

    Rob - as always, succinct & considered advice. Thanks. I've actually got an eye half-open for a decent lathe, if I can find one at the right price..... But why do you need to extend your Dizzy? You changed your plans RE manifold? Hope your car is progressing well....

    Rob.
    I've found an Argentine manifold for my injection cylinder head!

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    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Nice!! Still going with the Falcon Weber?

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Nice!! Still going with the Falcon Weber?
    Probably.

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    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug303 View Post
    I have a 123 on my ti and had no issues. From memory I think there are options on how you have the drive on the bottom and you just choose the right one. Similarly you just dial up the right curve (typically M53). In any case it fits and works fine, allowing plenty of adjustment.

    I bought my 123 out of the US on ebay as the $ meant a price of $420-430 landed.

    Cheers

    Jim
    Jim - what sort of running improvements have you achieved after fitting this?

  9. #9
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    Haven't driven it heaps since I fitted the 123 but it seems smoother, particularly at idle. I think it starts crisper as well.

    Cheers

    Jim

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    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I've found an Argentine manifold for my injection cylinder head!
    Good! an XM right?

    (the short one of the two on the picture)



    May I ask what are you talking about when you say "dizzy" distributor?
    Last edited by Molerpa; 18th February 2012 at 12:05 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Yes Molerpa "dizzy"does mean distributor. Australians are possibly the people who will abreviate every possible word and when that isn't enough will invent a new word for the same thing if it's shorter......or can cover more than one usage. "Grog": Any and every alcoholic beverage, usage expands in proportion to consumption!
    Even if 'grog' is a British Navy term then it's usage is/was expanded by the Aussie.
    p.s. The XM manifold holds a great deal of interest for me, similar plan as to Robmac! How hard are they to get hold of?
    Last edited by bluey504; 18th February 2012 at 01:49 AM. Reason: porr spellink

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    Fellow Frogger! ipb205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug303 View Post
    Haven't driven it heaps since I fitted the 123 but it seems smoother, particularly at idle. I think it starts crisper as well.

    Cheers

    Jim
    Same result on my Ti as above.
    Well worth swapping a worn out M53 but dont throw the M53 away!

    Ian

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molerpa View Post
    Good! an XM right?

    (the short one of the two on the picture)



    May I ask what are you talking about when you say "dizzy" distributor?
    Hi Molerpa,

    I see in the image there are two types of four branch manifold.

    I have one of type that in shown to the back of the image, the less rounded type. Not the XM?

    Can you give some information on the pros and cons of the two and the cars to which they were fitted.

    I offered the manifold up to the injection head, a 1975 504 Kugelfischer injection head. It seems that the drilling in the head is different to the manifold. It should not be a problem, all I need to do is drill a couple more mounting holes in the manifold.

    So I assume the manifold was designed to fit what is known Australia SLI (early Bosch L jet) ?

    cheers


    Rob

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    Member pugmachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Hi All,

    Looking to fit a 123 ignition electronic distributor to an injected 504 engine - currently I do not have a distributor at all for this motor.

    Is it easy-ish to extend the dizzy up to clear the manifolding, or will I need to source an orginal dizzy to butcher? Failing that, if anyone's fitted the 123 unit, how did you surrount the issue?

    Ta
    wombat, I've had a 123 distributor in my TI motor in a 504 pick up for over 2 years now with no problems, it gives the pick up a good all round drive. The body of the distributor have's a internal vacuum which does help with fitting between the inlet manifold and you just dial up your curve. pugmachine.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Short one corresponds to a XMA/XM7 engine (1.8, four round port head) but fits in any XN1A/XN6 engine (four round port head) is better for high revs

    the long one, is slightly better for low revs, and no so bad on high revs.

    For the long one, you need to extend distributor (as it goes inside of two ducts of it) and replace the fuel pump (talking of an mechanical type) for the one that has both inlet and outlet at the side. If not (both or one up) has interferance between it and the manifold.

    the short one, has no problem. Any pump, and the distributor goes outside of it.





    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Now by seeing the pics... I think that also needs an extension for de XM...

    Note: the ORIGINAL XN1A distributor is long in one piece, but a electronic distributor from XN1 can be fitted if extension is added.




    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Now by seeing the pics... I think that also needs an extension for the XM manifold...

    Note: the ORIGINAL XN1A distributor is long in one piece, but a electronic distributor from XN1 can be fitted if extension is added.


    Last edited by Molerpa; 18th February 2012 at 10:44 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I've found an Argentine manifold for my injection cylinder head!
    Should I ask how you aquired it?

    I wonder if there is much demand for these manifolds...... Wondering if it would be worth copying yours & having some made.......

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Should I ask how you aquired it?

    I wonder if there is much demand for these manifolds...... Wondering if it would be worth copying yours & having some made.......
    I found it from an ad of AF.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    Nice find...... I might start another thread, asking if people would be keen - assuming, of course, you wouldn't mind yours being copied?

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat200 View Post
    Nice find...... I might start another thread, asking if people would be keen - assuming, of course, you wouldn't mind yours being copied?
    No worries. It doesn't look too hard.

    The carby heat is a chamber beneath the carby flange with a cylinder pressure plug fitted afterwards.

    There will be quite a lot of machining needed , I'd add "o" ring around the inlet ports for sealing.

    I can possibly get one drawn up in Autodesk Inventor or Autodesk CAD 3d if that helps.

    Would one of these modern composites be a practical material ?

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    You mean composite as in glass reinforced resin of some sort?

    I was just thinking cast alloy - as patternmaker in a previous life, it should be pretty straight-forward....

    Machining - flange, carb mount, plus various drillings/tappings for fittings & mountings? I'd guess that it's the sort of thing that you'd machine the mounting faces, and leave the lugs / fittings to be drilled by the end users, dependant on their set-up.....? You could even add lugs/bosses to allow for injectors & a fuel rail, if people were that keen...... I used to do that with various V8 inlet manifolds I used to make patterns for in a previous life.... Mostly for drag/ski race boats...


    Rob.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! julian b's Avatar
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    Does the 123 eliminate the jerkiness on acceleration and deceleration that all peugeots i have had seemed to suffer from?

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