Who knows how to wire Tachometer of series 2 505?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Default Who knows how to wire Tachometer of series 2 505?

    Hi,

    Please does anyone knows how to wire 505 S2 tacho? Mine wasnt connected from the ignition coil ( wires absent). I know that a wire from the negative (-) terminal of coil should be a tacho sender. But what confuses me is the number of wires that go into the tacho, behind the instrument cluster, as you can see on pics attached. Two plugs/wiring connectors enter the tacho chamber. How do i wire them? Which should be ground wire? Which should be tacho sender from - ignition coil?

    Please, if anyone have the wiring diagram of 505 S2, if possible the V6, that shows the wiring of the tacho from ignition coil, please can you kindly attach it here, to help in undertanding the wiring. The 505 V6 diagram I have dosent contain the entire car diagram, except the diagram from the two ECUs to the sensors & relays in engine bay.

    Ikenna.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikenna351 View Post
    Hi,

    Please does anyone knows how to wire 505 S2 tacho? Mine wasnt connected from the ignition coil ( wires absent). I know that a wire from the negative (-) terminal of coil should be a tacho sender. But what confuses me is the number of wires that go into the tacho, behind the instrument cluster, as you can see on pics attached. Two plugs/wiring connectors enter the tacho chamber. How do i wire them? Which should be ground wire? Which should be tacho sender from - ignition coil?

    Please, if anyone have the wiring diagram of 505 S2, if possible the V6, that shows the wiring of the tacho from ignition coil, please can you kindly attach it here, to help in undertanding the wiring. The 505 V6 diagram I have dosent contain the entire car diagram, except the diagram from the two ECUs to the sensors & relays in engine bay.

    Ikenna.
    I have no specific knowledge about the 505. You will need to trace the connections from the tach to the pins of connectors. It should be able to read off a circuit diagram. I would assume all dash clusters use the same pin outs for the tacho.



    As a general rule a tacho needs three connections:

    Ground
    12V+ ignition switched
    pulse input from ignition system.

    On points coil/ ignition the pulse is sampled from the distributor points.

    On electronic ignition the pulse is sampled from the coil negative terminal

    On a car with ECU type ignition generally the ECU has a tacho output pulse.


    I'll try to hunt up a cluster wiring diagram....

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Something in the back of my head is telling me that the 505 V6, Turbo and all the diesels used the crank angle sensor to drive the tacho...
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Something in the back of my head is telling me that the 505 V6, Turbo and all the diesels used the crank angle sensor to drive the tacho...
    Quite possible... I bow to your extensive experience

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Actually more information has floated back into my mind......

    ..... Pretty certain that the tach signal in the V6 and Turbo is generated directly by the EZK ignition module, under the dashboard behind the glovebox (which gets it's trigger from the crank angle sensor). There should be no tach wires to the ignition coil.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    con
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    see if the attached helps you.



    con...

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    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    see if the attached helps you.



    con...
    OK, so the tacho (and tachymetric relay) is powered by a coil feed from the transistor switch.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    see if the attached helps you.



    con...
    Con, that diagram doesn't have the EZK ignition system, it looks like a standard XN or ZDJ with electronic ignition.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  9. #9
    con
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    Default 505 Tacho

    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Con, that diagram doesn't have the EZK ignition system, it looks like a standard XN or ZDJ with electronic ignition.

    Denmanu,

    You could be right of course: It all depends on whether the S2 tacho. is an analogue or a solid state one; this I don't know. So far, I have not had much success in finding anything resembling a solid state version. I'll keep looking - this could turn out to be very educational.


    con...


    PS. The analogue circuit one may be of use to others.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    Denmanu,

    You could be right of course: It all depends on whether the S2 tacho. is an analogue or a solid state one; this I don't know. So far, I have not had much success in finding anything resembling a solid state version. I'll keep looking - this could turn out to be very educational.


    con...


    PS. The analogue circuit one may be of use to others.
    As far as I know all the Jaeger et al tachos simply use a frequency to voltage converter chip.
    There is also some pulse shaping and a voltage regulator in the circuit.

    I believe all the tachos are very similar, possibly customised for the type input, ie kettering or electronic ignition or the diesel flywheel sensor.

    Since the tacho "movement" is essentially a voltmeter all that is needed is to covert the pulse frequency to an linear "ramp" voltage.

    So all of the tachos are solid state AFAIK.

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    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Various pics of V6 engine bay i have seen showed that the primary & secondary pins on ignition coil have two wires attached each. It should mean that one of the wires on the coil is for tacho. Though, the diagram of V6 ignition system showed that the EZK (ignition ECU) also controls the tacho. Unfortunately, the diagram didnt state which wire goes to tacho from the EZK. I was thinking of connecting the tacho direct to coil & see if it would work.

    Another problem is recognising the plug attached to the tacho that controls the tacho. As you can see on the second pic of tacho i attached in my first post, you would see two plugs attached to the tacho & each plugs has three wires. Now, how to know which wire is ground, +AC & tacho wire from coil or EZK, is a serious problem for me. Which of the wire colors serves what purpose?

    Ikenna
    Last edited by Ikenna351; 15th February 2012 at 10:10 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    As far as I know all the Jaeger et al tachos simply use a frequency to voltage converter chip.
    There is also some pulse shaping and a voltage regulator in the circuit.

    I believe all the tachos are very similar, possibly customised for the type input, ie kettering or electronic ignition or the diesel flywheel sensor.

    Since the tacho "movement" is essentially a voltmeter all that is needed is to covert the pulse frequency to an linear "ramp" voltage.

    So all of the tachos are solid state AFAIK.

    Yes, you are right. I have three series 2 505 intrument cluster( GTI, Turbo & V6 cluster). All connections to the tacho on the 3 clusters are the same (or similar/no major difference).

    But, Robmac, your statement " convert the pulse frequency to a linear ramp voltage". Please its too technical for me to understand. So, please, in English.

    Ikenna

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikenna351 View Post
    Various pics of V6 engine bay i have seen showed that the primary & secondary pins on ignition coil has two wires attached each. It should mean that one of the wires on the coil is for tacho. Though, the diagram of V6 ignition system showed that the EZK (ignition ECU) also controls the tacho. Unfortunately, the diagram didnt state which wire goes to tacho from the EZK. I was thinking of connecting the tacho direct to coil & see if it would work.

    Another problem is recognising the plug attached to the tacho that controls the tacho. As you can see on the second pic of tacho i attached in my first post, you would see two plugs attached to the tacho & each plugs has three wires. Now, how to know which wire is ground, +AC & tacho wire from coil or EZK, is a serious problem for me. Which of the wire colors serves what purpose?

    Ikenna
    It's a bit of nightmare tracing stuff like this.

    You really need someone to post a diagram of S2 505 cluster wiring.

    Failing that you need to trace the wires from the tach itself through the cluster pcb tracks. Hopefully you will work ground and positive in the process and the remaining connection will be the ac / pulse input.

    I don't envy your task.

    I would hope all 505 series 2 clusters have the same tacho connections 'tho. So any series 2 diagram should give you an idea of the connections.

    Best of luck

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    con
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    As far as I know all the Jaeger et al tachos simply use a frequency to voltage converter chip.
    There is also some pulse shaping and a voltage regulator in the circuit.

    I believe all the tachos are very similar, possibly customised for the type input, ie kettering or electronic ignition or the diesel flywheel sensor.

    Since the tacho "movement" is essentially a voltmeter all that is needed is to covert the pulse frequency to an linear "ramp" voltage.

    So all of the tachos are solid state AFAIK.

    Robmac,

    you are correct of course; sorry my slip up! what I meant to say was "analogue" or "digital" (scrambled neurons). The analogue being the "pulse/frequency to voltage" driving a moving coil meter. The digital being a pulse counter (into a numerical display).

    It could of course also be a hybrid; viz. "pulse counter" into a digital/analogue converter and again driving a moving coil.


    con...

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    In clubpeugeot505.com, we have a topic talking about the tachometer conection. Check this link

    http://clubpeugeot505.com/foro/viewt...ilit=tacometro



    That connections was checked on 4 cylinders 505´s (XN1, XN1-A, XN6 and ZDJL) than only uses the blue connector, the white one is not used. I dont know about V6, but maybe this data can help you.

    Translating the writtings in the images, the two upper wires (green and red) goes to the coil negative, the 3rd (green with a yellow stripe) to ground and the 4th (yellow) goes to positive under contact. As a first check, i think you can check that connection on the connector, to see if the signals are incoming to the dashboard

    As i can see in some dashboards than doesn´t work, the frequency-2-voltage converter is the piece than get damaged. It is a SAK215, it is not easy to find in argentina but not impossible.

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    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowpucci View Post
    In clubpeugeot505.com, we have a topic talking about the tachometer conection. Check this link

    http://clubpeugeot505.com/foro/viewt...ilit=tacometro



    That connections was checked on 4 cylinders 505´s (XN1, XN1-A, XN6 and ZDJL) than only uses the blue connector, the white one is not used. I dont know about V6, but maybe this data can help you.

    Translating the writtings in the images, the two upper wires (green and red) goes to the coil negative, the 3rd (green with a yellow stripe) to ground and the 4th (yellow) goes to positive under contact. As a first check, i think you can check that connection on the connector, to see if the signals are incoming to the dashboard

    As i can see in some dashboards than doesn´t work, the frequency-2-voltage converter is the piece than get damaged. It is a SAK215, it is not easy to find in argentina but not impossible.

    Thanks. I will try it and see what happens. I will use one of the spare cluster, maybe the ZDJL, to try it first in the engine bay. If it works, i will then connect it to the V6 cluster on dashboard. Will update you guys soon. Thanks all.

    Ikenna.

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    I finally carried out the tacho connection last night. I decided to connect only the 2nd upper wire to the coil negative first & see if it would work without connecting the 1st upper wire too to the coil negative. I then connected the ground wire (middle wire) & connected the last wire (yellow) to the coil positive. I first tried with ZDJL cluster & the damn thing worked. I quicly connected it then to ZN3J (V6) cluster & it worked as well. I was so happy last night.

    As you can see on the attached images, the first cluster (2nd image to your left) is ZDJL. The engine was idling when I took the pic. You can see that it was reading high at idle, since its not a V6 cluster. But as soon as i connected it to the ZN3J cluster, it was reading below 1000 rpm at idle (as you can see in other two cluster pics). Even though Peugeot said that the EZK unit controls tacho of V6, we have now learnt that it can be hard wired like everyother 505 cluster.

    Thanks guys. Thanks Shadowpucci. Am grateful.

    Ikenna.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by con View Post
    Robmac,

    you are correct of course; sorry my slip up! what I meant to say was "analogue" or "digital" (scrambled neurons). The analogue being the "pulse/frequency to voltage" driving a moving coil meter. The digital being a pulse counter (into a numerical display).

    It could of course also be a hybrid; viz. "pulse counter" into a digital/analogue converter and again driving a moving coil.


    con...


    http://www.alldatasheet.com/datashee...TC/SAK215.html

    They are like rocking horse sh!t in Australia too!

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Good!

    FInally! that post I've done was useful!


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Molerpa View Post
    Good!

    FInally! that post I've done was useful!
    Yup, thanks, very useful, it's a job i would like to do on the wagon but I've been putting it off...oooh....2 years now.
    Goonengerry 505


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    Do not worry... the tacho of my car still is sleeping on the "0" (four years)


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    well, those are good news. You´re welcome.

    The credits are for my friend, molerpa, than wrote the original article @clubpeugeot505.

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