Splash proofing ignition 505
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Blaxland NSW
    Posts
    39

    Default Splash proofing ignition 505

    My 505 Sti is taken out bush.

    What can I do to protect the ignition etc to stop the car from stalling in and after water crossings, i.e of more than about 6" 150mm depth.
    Comments about driving techniques will also be welcome.

    Coming out from Yerranderie yesterday we had six or so water crossings to do. The 505 didn't handle any of them without trouble. For the big one, (the engine was not hot since we waited 3hrs for the water to go down 100mm) I had a plastic bag over the dissy and protection over the coil and a towel over the front of the car to push the water away. Once the ignition had got wet it didnt seem to take much of a splash to douse it all again.

    The common symptoms are that the engine stalls. Then the starter (a new one) doesn't work, only the solenoid kicks. My grandson (18yo) then gave the ignition switch a work out that made me want to close my eyes, put my hands over my ears and run away.
    Then gradually there are motor turning attempts. Once it does work, it is a hell of a job to get it to fire up. Once fired up it will run and maybe even idle without load, but dies when drive is engaged. I had to use the technique of a lot of revs, drop it into drive and hope for the best. Once running I had to keep the revs up by selecting second or first, or it would die. After about 15 minutes of running the car had settled back to normal.

    Advertisement


    I cannot work out what is getting wet or rather wettest, that is causing it to stall.
    Nor can I work out what the starter is doing and how to stop it/fix it.

    Seeing the photos of the cars coming through the water at Eliot Falls camp ground NT gives me hope, but I dont think mine could do that right now.

    Thanks
    BruceK

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    350

    Default

    I had a similar problem with a V8 commodore years ago. It turned out to be old ignition leads which were porous. A temporary fix is to spray the leads with Mr Sheen but really if they are a few years old get new ones. Neil

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Posts
    18,087

    Default

    We used a rubber glove taped onto the dizzy and leads of the Cooper S minivan rally car and ploughed through all sorts of creek crossings without incident. New leads and points were constantly fitted as part of a serious effort to maintain horsepower. Piss the bag off and fit a rubber glove and new leads. Move the coil up higher and fit a protective sleeve on that. Sounds like there may be more than ignition problems, could be it's starving for fuel, Peugeot 505 Fuel Pump problems. might be of use?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gladstone
    Posts
    266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceLK View Post
    My 505 Sti is taken out bush.

    What can I do to protect the ignition etc to stop the car from stalling in and after water crossings, i.e of more than about 6" 150mm depth.
    Comments about driving techniques will also be welcome.

    Coming out from Yerranderie yesterday we had six or so water crossings to do. The 505 didn't handle any of them without trouble. For the big one, (the engine was not hot since we waited 3hrs for the water to go down 100mm) I had a plastic bag over the dissy and protection over the coil and a towel over the front of the car to push the water away. Once the ignition had got wet it didnt seem to take much of a splash to douse it all again.

    The common symptoms are that the engine stalls. Then the starter (a new one) doesn't work, only the solenoid kicks. My grandson (18yo) then gave the ignition switch a work out that made me want to close my eyes, put my hands over my ears and run away.
    Then gradually there are motor turning attempts. Once it does work, it is a hell of a job to get it to fire up. Once fired up it will run and maybe even idle without load, but dies when drive is engaged. I had to use the technique of a lot of revs, drop it into drive and hope for the best. Once running I had to keep the revs up by selecting second or first, or it would die. After about 15 minutes of running the car had settled back to normal.

    I cannot work out what is getting wet or rather wettest, that is causing it to stall.
    Nor can I work out what the starter is doing and how to stop it/fix it.

    Seeing the photos of the cars coming through the water at Eliot Falls camp ground NT gives me hope, but I dont think mine could do that right now.

    Thanks
    BruceK
    Never attempt to cross fast or even moderately flowing water.
    Creek and River crossings where the water is only flowing moderately the rule is Slow through water keeping revs up. If the water is over the exhaust pipe you will have trouble with back pressure and the car will stall. To stop splashing water all over the engine you must have a cover sheet over the grille and it is a good idea to take the fan belt off.

    Slow through water and fast through sand. Regards Graham

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Blaxland NSW
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Thanks Guys

    The rubber glove idea sounds good. I will need to find one that can stand some heat.

    The dizzy in the Sti cant be raised. It is too close to everything as it is.

    One of the rangers from Yerranderie has a holden v8 1 ton tray top and drove this vehicle straight through the 500mm deep water. The water went over the bonnet. The dizzy on that is up high near the firewall.

    Thanks Graham for the tip about driving. I need some coaching I think.
    My car is an auto so I need to select first gear not drive. Perhaps I should keep the revs up by keeping some pressure on the brake? Someone else told me that you should enter the water slowly and power up once into it.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Blaxland NSW
    Posts
    39

    Default

    The photo is of the Colong River near Yerranderie where we waited 3 hours and also saw the Holden come through.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Splash proofing ignition 505-brucecameramar2011-041.jpg  

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! James S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    345

    Default Colong

    I've been on that road, in a tinny Daihatsu Charade, in the snow, at night time! We camped near Colong Caves - was a Sydney Uni caving trip. It was the coldest night I reckon I have ever spent in a tent. I shivered the whole night. Really nice area though.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Blaxland NSW
    Posts
    39

    Default Denton's solution

    My mechanic says the Sti's dizzy is low and to seal it with silicone goo.
    I have to get the non glue type.
    Seal the leads the cap and the drain holes in the bottom.

    Its only a week and a half and we do the Yerranderie road again.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern NSW
    Posts
    1,076

    Default

    I live in a place that has access via a dirt road with 6 creek crossings. During the year these range from flood to a trickle. The only time we have problems are when it's borderline flood.
    Last year we came to grief in a crossing that was 800mm deep when we attempted to cross in our Hilux but got stuck on a rock halfway across, and gradually the water pressure rolled us , fully submerging the cabin, and we luckily escaped through broken side windows.
    We will not now go into water deeper than 600mm and this only in a 4wd.
    However the rest of the time, up to 500mm, we happily negotiate in our 406. We had a hard lesson there as well, during our first 6 months living here, as the air intake is not high enough on the 406, causing us to suck water into the engine which 'hydraulicked' it, bending a conrod and causing seizure. So I re routed the air intake and it now comes from just under the bonnet at the firewall.
    The way to go through all such reasonably low water is very slowly all the way. Nothing is gained by speedy or jerky driving as all it does is splashes up onto your engine. The fan will also do this , more in some cars than others.
    The 505 is susceptible to water directly on the dizzy, so you are right to protect it, but I drove my 505 through water that was higher than the floor, very slowly, with no problems.
    Yes you'll need new leads and probably a new dizzy cap, as once those inner terminals get a bit crusty, they hang onto moisture for awhile, and older caps can have hairline cracks that will allow water in.
    You should get a tape measure and see just how far from the ground your dizzy is situated.
    This will give you an idea of how deep you can actually get through. The water should not be deep enough to reach the bottom of the dizzy, even if you have it all bagged and sealed.
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.
    To make sure of a water crossing it is a very good rule of thumb, that if you can't walk it, you can't drive it. Take your wellies and your tape measure and see whether the water height tallies with what you discovered about your dizzy height.
    Good luck.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    South America, Argentina, That country that looks like hanging from the map... just about to fall...
    Posts
    492

    Default

    If it is an XN6, do not worry, you can drawn yourself before the distributor knows what a drop of water is...

    If it is an ZEJ/ZDJ, as my car has, believe me... Same as Luthier, I've been into real rivers (here were I live, sometimes the drains has no capacity to drain the amount of rain that suddenly falls) over 240-250mm (more than 3/4 wheel, reaching door level, going from curb to curb on the streets) and even when the distributor is really low (around that level) after 1 day of heavy rain, crossing all those "street-rivers" kinda heard it a few seconds on three cylinders, but after some minutes, was already "in four".

    Clearly, the only thing I did is to use good wires and distributor cap, etc...


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    South America, Argentina, That country that looks like hanging from the map... just about to fall...
    Posts
    492

    Default

    Ok... Now I know what is going to be my signature... awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Blaxland NSW
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Thanks Luthier,

    I have read your other posts with river stories.
    I put the silicone on today.
    Could hardly get my hand in through the manifold and wires.
    I will measure it.

    The 504 rally car new thread has pictures of an air intake coming from near the fire wall.
    It also shows a wide water crossing with the water at about 300mm and car going through much more gently that I imagined.

    Everyone says slowly!
    I'm afraid that it will stall!
    How slow? Is walking pace about right?

    We go to Yerranderie on Tuesday, and with all the weather I might have to buy scuba gear!
    Accompanying us we should have a 403 wagon a Disco and a Rav.
    Last edited by BruceLK; 28th February 2012 at 08:59 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    350

    Default

    'slowly" is a slow speed such that a small bow wave builds up in front of the car and this keeps it out of the engine bay as long as you are moving.-----try 5-10 kph max. Neil

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Blaxland NSW
    Posts
    39

    Default Washed out

    Our trip to Yerranderie went the way of nearly all events that week; CANCELLED, or in our case postponed. The road to Yerranderie is still closed to conventional vehicles, and the Mittagong - Wombeyan road is still closed due to a rockfall.
    We are working on a reschedule with August dates with the prospect of more participants.

    5- 10Kph! I will need to practice.

    In the mean time I have rigged up a fan lassoo. The fan has a viscous coupling so a little loop of rope tied back to to some body work will stop it splashing water everywhere. Easy!

    Today I have also finished and fitted a splash plate that covers from the front cowling to the gearbox. Four bolts, no body mods. I made it out of a light weight gal sheet 560x900mm.
    I wanted 650mm wide but I have offset it to cover the electrics side of the engine bay.

    It is mounted at the front to the cowling mounting. In the middle it is hung from the crossmember by fitting bolts vertically into the bolt holes that are already there. The last bit is tied off with a zip tie to stop it flapping. The plate is separated from the sump by a rubber membrane (part of an old wheel barrow tube). Should emulate modern cars with a smooth under belly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Splash proofing ignition 505-505splashplatemar2011-002.jpg   Splash proofing ignition 505-505splashplatemar2011-003.jpg   Splash proofing ignition 505-505splashplatemar2011-005.jpg   Splash proofing ignition 505-505splashplatemar2011-006.jpg  

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Looks great but why not rivett a bit of 3mm aluminium sheet either inside or outside of it directly under the sump so you have a bit of extra protection there as well if you are planning on doing a lot of dirt? Neil

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,445

    Default

    rubber glove on the dissy (4 cylinders plus the coil + 5 fingers) and or plasticene from a kids hobby shop or Gumby

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •