205 roll cage
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Thread: 205 roll cage

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 205 roll cage

    As far as I can tell know one in Australia has an off the shelf (so to speak) roll cage template for a 205. I will be doing another cage soon.

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    Please let me know any genuine interest, and I will get, bond roll bars in Sydney to use my car as a templete for both full cages (weld and bolt in) and 1/2 cages weld and bolt in.

    Obviously if we do a few at once there are cost savings, but remember good cages do cost!

    A full weld in kit form fitting will probably end up around $1000.00 and professionally flitted $2500 to $3500 at guess (estimated)
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Mr maxi,

    Brown Davis here in Melbourne did Graham Wallis' Si and I think they have a template for our 205's - he says he has them for 1000's of cars. G's car is a nice fit and cost under $2K I think installed. The cage you put in your car is a bit more complicated than his though.
    The Vic regs say you cant have a forward cage at all now I believe. Personally this is not going to stop me, so I can be alive to pay the fine.

    I am thinking of getting a pro group to bend and weld up just the main hoop, front arms and windscreen top bar, then fabricate the rest myself. I think these cars need links to the front towers etc but the cost to get it done would be massive.

    thoughts?

    Ash
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  3. #3
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    Design here, less the front extensions forward of the fire wall (unless a rally car)

    Current Stable
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    2018 Mercedes Vito
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    Ford Sierra Cosworth (Track Car)
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    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
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    1991 405 Mi16
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'm building another car, so keen for a full weld in kit. Why can't track cars have the front strut triangulation?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Thats a good design and is basically a space frame with the front tower triangles (are you not allowed to penetrate the firewall with a track car perhaps?)
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    I'm building another car, so keen for a full weld in kit. Why can't track cars have the front strut triangulation?
    They can. Although I believe its not a must have for a circuit car. Come over and have a look at mine some time. I made the choice of absolute safety and weight

    I choose not to run it in my car as I plated the front in a different (lighter) way. Also Improved production regs do not allow that style of bracing

    Russ
    Current Stable
    Nissan Patrol
    2018 Mercedes Vito
    Renault Megane 225 Cup
    Ford Sierra XR4ti
    Ford Sierra Cosworth (Track Car)
    1971 Mini Clubman


    Previous Pugs
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    'as I plated the front in a different (lighter) way'

    can you show us what you did?
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I knew it wasn't allowed in Improved Production but can't see any other reason not to do it. All the cages made professionally in the UK seem to have that feature.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 205 roll cage-002.jpg   205 roll cage-003.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  9. #9
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    i also plan to make a track car with a roll cage as pictured above, but i really want to know to rules before i start cutting stuff.

    are there any big NO NO's when building a 205 track car?
    and are there special classes for fwd or hatch cars?
    and if so are their engine classes to?

    i plan on building a track/hillclimb car.

    sorry for asking so many questions on someone else's post.

    cheers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    I knew it wasn't allowed in Improved Production but can't see any other reason not to do it. All the cages made professionally in the UK seem to have that feature.
    Yes, they do. The reason I choose not to do it was resale, easier if I choose to sell to have it comply with as many clases as possible.

    The white photo you show has the front legs in the door opening , so the front legs are probably 100mm back than in my car.




    We decided to gusset rather than extend the roll cage (example is from a Ford Escort, but you get the drift)

    Current Stable
    Nissan Patrol
    2018 Mercedes Vito
    Renault Megane 225 Cup
    Ford Sierra XR4ti
    Ford Sierra Cosworth (Track Car)
    1971 Mini Clubman


    Previous Pugs
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Im interested in a half cage for the road 205. Have been off the boil with reg in regards to rego. Are half cages ok?

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    if you lose it at the end of a straight and heading front/side on to the barrier at 100k's, how much do you think a 1/2 cage will do for you?
    I am more concerned about being hit from the side than rolling over myself.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    if you lose it at the end of a straight and heading front/side on to the barrier at 100k's, how much do you think a 1/2 cage will do for you?
    I am more concerned about being hit from the side than rolling over myself.
    Different kinds of accidents...

    A straight on one, yes a roll cage will help, however there is an argument to say in a front on accident with a substaintial cage more 'shock' runs through the human body. As the millions spent by car manufacturers actually does create some very good front impact crumple zones (to help absorb energy)

    A side hit is a bit different , yes bloody great intrusion bars may help.

    But accident science does vary from Road and Race incidents.
    Current Stable
    Nissan Patrol
    2018 Mercedes Vito
    Renault Megane 225 Cup
    Ford Sierra XR4ti
    Ford Sierra Cosworth (Track Car)
    1971 Mini Clubman


    Previous Pugs
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205lover<3 View Post
    i also plan to make a track car with a roll cage as pictured above, but i really want to know to rules before i start cutting stuff.

    are there any big NO NO's when building a 205 track car?
    and are there special classes for fwd or hatch cars?
    and if so are their engine classes to?

    i plan on building a track/hillclimb car.
    I posted some regulations for CSCA Supersprints here: Supersprint Regulations

    They're based on Type 3 CAMS Supersprint rules. Supersprints and Hillclimbs are "Speed" events and require an L2S license, which is easy to get. You can download a copy of the CAMS manual from here: http://www.camsmanual.com.au/

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    The Vic regs say you cant have a forward cage at all now I believe. Personally this is not going to stop me, so I can be alive to pay the fine.
    he he, logical thinking IMO.

    Looking at the UK ones the windscreen pillar isn't much thicker than many modern cars with pillar airbags, can you use thinner pipe (thicker walls i suppose) at the front, cover in something like motorbike clothing impact foam and hide it like a fat pillar?
    1990 205gti 8v, sv1000, zx6, sv650, zxr750, rgv250, austin 1800, fiat 124ac, fiat x1/9, 76 rd350, 124bc, lancia beta, yz125G, yz80h, yz50g, gtmx80c

  16. #16
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    Hi guys,

    Came across this video via speedhunters.com

    Have a read, and if you dare, a watch. Relevant because the cage played a part in this, plus to talk of track car safty. Wise words in the introduction too.

    http://www.crankandpiston.com/201218...ntense-moment/
    Lets just say we have a few pugs about!

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar View Post
    he he, logical thinking IMO.

    Looking at the UK ones the windscreen pillar isn't much thicker than many modern cars with pillar airbags, can you use thinner pipe (thicker walls i suppose) at the front, cover in something like motorbike clothing impact foam and hide it like a fat pillar?

    Yeah, I have some thin black sound proofing for a cunning disguise of the screen pillar bars - anything to reduce unwanted attention. Its a bit hard to not show huge triangles in the back though.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Maxi View Post
    Different kinds of accidents...

    A straight on one, yes a roll cage will help, however there is an argument to say in a front on accident with a substaintial cage more 'shock' runs through the human body. As the millions spent by car manufacturers actually does create some very good front impact crumple zones (to help absorb energy)

    A side hit is a bit different , yes bloody great intrusion bars may help.

    But accident science does vary from Road and Race incidents.

    Yes, you dont want to take the shock of impact. Why do V8 supercars etc have utterly rigid survival cells then?
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hipcrostino View Post
    Hi guys,

    Came across this video via speedhunters.com

    Have a read, and if you dare, a watch. Relevant because the cage played a part in this, plus to talk of track car safty. Wise words in the introduction too.

    http://www.crankandpiston.com/201218...ntense-moment/

    Its always the poor guy at the back hey? the cage did a good job here. He managed to get the car left just enough to avoid his side. Note he had a neck brace etc. The driver in the yellow car really copped it too.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  20. #20
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    HANS devices are becoming mandatory in a national and higher level competition here. Targa it's mandatory.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Isis's Avatar
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    I think you are up for about $1000 for the helmet/brace combo. Makes doing a few hill climbs a not so simple issue.
    S3 205 GTI x 4 and getting lower
    1998 S1 Lotus Elise
    2013 Fiesta ST
    2014 Audi SQ5

  22. #22
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    clubsport racing doesn't require it here.

    And if you can get HANS and helmet for 1k your doing well sir.

    It's only the national level and higher that requires it typically and then it's event specific.

  23. #23
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    Guys and Girls can we please stick to topics in posts.

    I did not ask about the merits of what a cage may or may not do, nor the benifits of a hans or any other safety device.

    So far I can see only a little interest in 1 full cage (PT) and a 1/2 (cam).

    Russ
    Current Stable
    Nissan Patrol
    2018 Mercedes Vito
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    Previous Pugs
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  24. #24
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    sorry

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Im keen for a little roll over protection. I also want it to be registered on the road and have full insurance and everything engineered so I dont get into any dramas if I happen to hit something.

    Russ, will be good to chat cages on Sunday. I had a mate get a cage built by AGI Precision ( I think thats what they are called ) and was dealt with very professionally. The guys is an Ex Williams F1 chassis designer. Was awesome to chat to apparently. Im also going to talk to them about a cage if your interested..

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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