Did Pininfarina design the 504 berline?
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  1. #1
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Default Did Pininfarina design the 504 berline?

    Or not? I always thought it was, but 504 berline is not listed on Wikipedia's list of designs by Pininfarina. Coupe and cabriolet are there. The berline is not listed on Pininfarina's own website either.

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    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



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    Fellow Frogger! FedGrapes's Avatar
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    I get mixed messages from the info online sources, but nothing definitive to say that it was.

    My gut feeling is that Pininfarina didn't get to the 504 outside the coupe/cabriolet/(124BC ). It doesn't seem to fit contemporary designs that they were doing.

    I did read an article that stated the 504 was designed in house. I would like to know for sure though! It's a great addition to anyone's resume!

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    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Yes. the 504 and the Argentine restyling of 1992 of it, is 100% Pininfarina.


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    I like the sound of that, but can you provide evidence?
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    I like the sound of that, but can you provide evidence?
    Never heard anything to the contrary, on the other hand the 205 WAS done in house.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    In reading some of the Pininfarina history the only Peugeot saloon designed by their design department was the 403. Pininfarina was contracted by Peugeot to only design niche models, Coupes or Cabriolets eg. 204, 404, 205, 306 and 406. The construction of the bodies was also handled by Pininfarina then shipped off to Peugeot for completion of assembly with the exception of the 406 which was completely constructed and assembled by their factory.

    Source : Pininfarina - 1930 to 2000 by Antoine Pruvet

    www.Pininfarina.com

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    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    There is some missing information there. For example, the 605 was also pininfarina 100% ... only that de design was sold to other cars... Fiat Chroma, Alfa Romeo 164, Lancia Thema...


    Alfa...




    Lancia...



    Fiat...



    605...





    there is not mentioned the Torino (not ford, IKA)




    And example of the Bergantin / Alfa Romeo 1900

    Bergantin (IKA, made in Argentina)






    Morris Oxford - SIAM Di Tella - 404







    And others...


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    The 504 Berline / Saloon / Sedan was Peugeot's own in house design.

    However Pinifarina was commissioned for special designs of existing models like this 205 Break [ Wagon ] from the Salone di Torino in 1984 that never made production.

    Pininfarina 205 Break.jpg205 Break Verve.jpg

    Little did Peugeot know how successful the small wagons would become. It was therefore way ahead of its time in terms of the concept.

    Pinifarina colaborated with Peugeot for the 205, 305, 505 and the 604
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Did Pininfarina design the 504 berline?-pininfarina-205-break.jpg   Did Pininfarina design the 504 berline?-205-break-verve.jpg  

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molerpa View Post
    There is some missing information there. For example, the 605 was also pininfarina 100% ... only that de design was sold to other cars... Fiat Chroma, Alfa Romeo 164, Lancia Thema...


    And others...
    Whoa !..........let's not get too carried away here : )

    I agree that if this topic was discussing every collaboration between Peugeot and Pininfarina in regards to part involvement, prototypes and concepts that never made it to production there is information missing and / or were sold and used by other manufacturers. But my post was about the 504 with some " of interest " stuff added on and was not meant as a complete bibliography of Peugeot / Pininfarina partnership.

    As for the comments on the design of the 604 / 605 proof please ......

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    Fellow Frogger! ducksonetime's Avatar
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    Wasn't the 164 launched around 2 years before the 605?
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    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Default Pininfarina Website has the Proof...

    You will find the Peugeot models which were designed by Pinifarina on the Pininfarina website

    This is the link for Pininfarina designed Peugeot's:

    http://www.pininfarina.com/index/sto...0bb5n7n67rfql4

    Interestingly the 403 is featured...

    This link shows a wider range of Designs but in essence only Pininfarina designed cars wore the Pininfarina badge from the 1960's onwards...

    http://www.pininfarina.com/index/sto...ni/collPeugeot

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    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducksonetime View Post
    Wasn't the 164 launched around 2 years before the 605?
    The 164 Alfa was a Pininfarina Car [ launched in 1987 ] and the Peugeot 605 [ launched 1989 ] was not.

    The Alfa 164 shared its floorpan with the Lancia Thema, Fiat Chroma and Saab 9000 but had the best handling not to mention a very nice looking V6

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    Fellow Frogger! ducksonetime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 908HDI View Post
    The 164 Alfa was a Pininfarina Car [ launched in 1987 ] and the Peugeot 605 [ launched 1989 ] was not.

    The Alfa 164 shared its floorpan with the Lancia Thema, Fiat Chroma and Saab 9000 but had the best handling not to mention a very nice looking V6
    Makes sense to me, Molerpa's post didn't sound right though...

    The 164's 12v V6 was awesome... the best sounding version of the Busso V6 IMO (for the 24v version see my signature )
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    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 908HDI View Post
    You will find the Peugeot models which were designed by Pinifarina on the Pininfarina website
    As per my first post ......

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    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    The 124 BC, Croma and Lancia Thema mentioned before were not Pininfarina designs. The 124 Coupe (AC/BC/CC) was an inhouse design and the Croma and Thema were designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro at Ital Design.

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    Fellow Frogger! FedGrapes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyO View Post
    The 124 BC, Croma and Lancia Thema mentioned before were not Pininfarina designs. The 124 Coupe (AC/BC/CC) was an inhouse design and the Croma and Thema were designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro at Ital Design.
    Wow. That really surprises me when you look at the BC next to the 504 coupe. The similarities are striking, and I would probably have an issue differentiating at more than 20 metres without seeing a lion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...C3%A9_1972.jpg

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    Fellow Frogger! Uffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FedGrapes View Post
    I would probably have an issue differentiating at more than 20 metres without seeing a lion.
    I agree that in a picture the similarities are striking but I can assure you that in real life you wouldn't have trouble differentiating them.
    504 GL Coupe '73 Silver
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Has always happened when the original designer leaves to work for another company and hey presto ! Or maufacturers just copy each other ....here's an example from the Guess the Car Topic on this forum ...

    One is an Isuzu 117 Coupe, the other is a Mazda Luce Coupe : )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Did Pininfarina design the 504 berline?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1328593159.946858.jpg   Did Pininfarina design the 504 berline?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1328594190.699322.jpg  

  19. #19
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Russell Hall sent me an email last night confirming that Pininfarina did indeed style the 504 berline and sent me a series of pdf files from an Autocar magazine article from 1968 confirming this fact in the text:

    Pininfarina styled the body, except for detail changes made by Peugeot to suit it for mass production.
    As this article was written when the car was just being released, it is almost certain to be correct. On the other hand it's quite possible one or more cars could be overlooked when someone is designing a website 30 or 40 years later!
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    I agree with your last point so happy to be corrected by a period piece relating to the actual car launch. Always learning, thanks Russell : )

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    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    Russell Hall sent me an email last night confirming that Pininfarina did indeed style the 504 berline and sent me a series of pdf files from an Autocar magazine article from 1968 confirming this fact in the text:

    As this article was written when the car was just being released, it is almost certain to be correct. On the other hand it's quite possible one or more cars could be overlooked when someone is designing a website 30 or 40 years later!
    There is a difference between commissioned Pininfarina design and a colaboration.

    Pininfarina's website clearly shows the 403, which is a total Pininfarina design, much like the 205.

    It seems odd though that the 504 Berline does not get a mention as it was a very important and prominent car for Peugeot and the 403 does. This to me indicates that the 504 was a colaboration as opposed to a 100% Pininfarina design.

    This has intriuged me so much so that I sent an email to Pinifarina asking for clarification....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    Russell Hall sent me an email last night confirming that Pininfarina did indeed style the 504 berline and sent me a series of pdf files from an Autocar magazine article from 1968 confirming this fact in the text:

    As this article was written when the car was just being released, it is almost certain to be correct. On the other hand it's quite possible one or more cars could be overlooked when someone is designing a website 30 or 40 years later!
    Yes, this has always been understood just as Pininfarina did't do the 205, but things get blurred with time.

  23. #23
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    The picture of the 403 on Pininfarina's website seems to be a earlier design prototype than that which went into production.

    From the website:



    Production version:



    Which if nothing else shows that the website is not correct in every detail!
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  24. #24
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Check out this page from http://www.garage24.net/. It shows "Pininfarina's first proposal" and "another Pininfarina prototype".

    http://www.garage24.net/0504-8.htm



    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn View Post
    Check out this page from http://www.garage24.net/. It shows "Pininfarina's first proposal" and "another Pininfarina prototype".

    http://www.garage24.net/0504-8.htm



    That just looks like a stretched 204 and a Glas 2600 thrown in for good measure. Interesting DNA though.... As an owner of a 504 I have to know how much involvement Pininfarina had on the 504 if any. At the Sochaux museum i was told that the 504 Berline was not a Pininfarina car....unlike the coupe and cabriolet versions.

    I am quite looking forward to a reply form Pininfarina.

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