Pu4 403 clutch plate replacement
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  1. #1
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    Default Pu4 403 clutch plate replacement

    hi guys, need some help here... my 1959 Pug 403 needs a clutch replacement I guess, seems to be having difficulties climbing slopes...

    the workshop manual indicates that the whole rear diff and long shaft has to be removed in order to get to the clutch.. anyone has replaced the clutch plates before, can it be done by any other simple method like removing the engine?

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Molerpa's Avatar
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    Don't exactly know the 403, but yes the 404 (older) with same gearbox than yours, C3-B (although not same engine) can remove engine and replace clutch. Or, you can remove "all what is behind" ... is your choice.
    As you don't have power steering and/or A/C, I prefer to take out the engine, and not all the rear end, suspension, yada yada yada things on the back.

    If you can, and you have someone that can adapt the "Fork" with the BA7 one, so you can use a real ball bearing and not the graphite original bearing, better.

    thanks kiwia110 for the confirmation of "fork".
    Last edited by Molerpa; 4th February 2012 at 05:02 AM.


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  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=Molerpa;1031348
    ¿Fork? is the correct term for the rocker arm that presses the clutch press?.[/QUOTE]

    Yes correct term, clutch fork

  4. #4
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    Default 403 clutch removal

    I have done it a number of times , can say I found it much easier to remove ( really only disconnect and roll back a few inches ) the tail shaft( torque tube ) and rear axle. If removing the engine , much more to disconnect and fairly difficult to line things up when putting it back in.

  5. #5
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    I always remove the engine to replace the clutch because I find it easier overall if a little longer (but it does not take long to remove the engine from a 403).

    I have also replaced the clutch by rolling back the rear axle, undoing the torque tube and removing the gearbox from underneath. I found this much more difficult because I cannot raise the car off the ground far enough to get enough working space.

    Any way that's my opinion for what its worth!

    If you need a clutch kit I purchased a clutch kit (pressure plate and driven plate), last year I bought a clutch kit from the Classic Car Garage in the US ( www.classicgarage.com/pe403clset.htm ); their current price is US$109.96 and 6 months ago the freight from the US to Australia was US$85. I think this is cheaper than European sources I have seen recently. Their kit does not include a thrust bearing

    If you want to fit a ball race clutch bearing release bearing (instead of a graphite release bearing), Der Franzose in Germany sells a ball race version for Euro18.90 plus freight. ( http://www.franzose.de/en/Peugeot/20...lung/ANR72551/ ). I bought one recently and it looks very good - will fit soon.

    If you already have the parts you need just ignore the above info re parts. The internet makes restoring or keeping old cars running so much easier (provided you can wait for parts to arrive that is!).

    Cheers

    John T

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    I've always removed the engine when replacing the clutch in a 403. The main reason is that I thought it would be awkward removing and replacing the gearbox while laying flat on my back under the car.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    I've always removed the engine when replacing the clutch in a 403. The main reason is that I thought it would be awkward removing and replacing the gearbox while laying flat on my back under the car.
    I'm with you Peter. Same as the 404. You can access nearly all the bolts you need to remove an engine without crawling under the car.

    You do need a winch with support point or an engine crane to lift the engine. An engine leveller makes it easier, as does jacking the front of the gearbox.

    If you don't have this gear moving the diff back is easier

  8. #8
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    Default thanks

    yeah man thanks for all the info, probably have the engine removed. Some parts are still available here but probably covered with thick dust.

    Fitting the fork sound interesting, is it just a straight replacement or does it require some modification?

    dan.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugeotnut View Post
    yeah man thanks for all the info, probably have the engine removed. Some parts are still available here but probably covered with thick dust.

    Fitting the fork sound interesting, is it just a straight replacement or does it require some modification?

    dan.
    Looking at the francoze image ball bearing thrust I think it's a direct replacement for the carbon thrust.

    Make sure you get the two retaining clips with it.

    If you remove the engine, don't forget to take the oil breather off the engine. I always used forget!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Looking at the francoze image ball bearing thrust I think it's a direct replacement for the carbon thrust.

    Make sure you get the two retaining clips with it.

    If you remove the engine, don't forget to take the oil breather off the engine. I always used forget!
    Having actually purchased the Francoze ball bearing thrust and held in in my hand, I can confirm that it is a direct replacement for the graphite thrust and does not need a 404 clutch fork. However, Francoze did not supply the two retaining clips. Must search their site to see if the clips are available.

    John T

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugeotnut View Post
    hi guys, need some help here... my 1959 Pug 403 needs a clutch replacement I guess, seems to be having difficulties climbing slopes...

    the workshop manual indicates that the whole rear diff and long shaft has to be removed in order to get to the clutch.. anyone has replaced the clutch plates before, can it be done by any other simple method like removing the engine?
    Yes of course, pull the engine out.
    You need to remove the lower sump first though.
    Graham

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
    I always remove the engine to replace the clutch because I find it easier overall if a little longer (but it does not take long to remove the engine from a 403).

    I have also replaced the clutch by rolling back the rear axle, undoing the torque tube and removing the gearbox from underneath. I found this much more difficult because I cannot raise the car off the ground far enough to get enough working space.

    Any way that's my opinion for what its worth!

    If you need a clutch kit I purchased a clutch kit (pressure plate and driven plate), last year I bought a clutch kit from the Classic Car Garage in the US ( www.classicgarage.com/pe403clset.htm ); their current price is US$109.96 and 6 months ago the freight from the US to Australia was US$85. I think this is cheaper than European sources I have seen recently. Their kit does not include a thrust bearing

    If you want to fit a ball race clutch bearing release bearing (instead of a graphite release bearing), Der Franzose in Germany sells a ball race version for Euro18.90 plus freight. ( http://www.franzose.de/en/Peugeot/20...lung/ANR72551/ ). I bought one recently and it looks very good - will fit soon.

    If you already have the parts you need just ignore the above info re parts. The internet makes restoring or keeping old cars running so much easier (provided you can wait for parts to arrive that is!).

    Cheers

    John T
    You can't use a plain ball race as it slides across the surface of the throwout pad on the clutch plate and will stick after a while, the BA7 arrangement keeps the bearing in line.
    I believe you can buy carbon coated ball races for this purpose.
    Graham

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    Default 403 clutch removal

    Done this several times recently to work on g box which wasnt too bad as i have a hoist BUT for clutch replacement only engine out is more straight forward & no need to disconnect brakes & resultant bleeding & dont need to lift from below etc. All my 403 engine extractions OK with sump still on.........a tight squeeze but manageable!

  14. #14
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    engine out is easier,
    mind you don't crush the brake line if attempting engine remove with sump on
    support the gearbox while extracting motor and while engine out

  15. #15
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    Personally I think it's far easier to take out the gearbox and roll the diff back.
    If you look at the number of things that need disconnecting I think this is far easier than engine out.
    It's handbrake cable, shocker tops, stabilizer bar, rear torque tube bolts, rear gearbox mount, and then roll drive shaft out of the way.
    Then it's clutch mount and gearlinkages , starter, speedo, engine gearbox plates and then gearbox to engine bolts and you're in. The gearbox is light enough to be supported on your chest as you get it down, so all you need is to lift the back of the car body a bit.
    The other way it's all the cables ,[throttle, choke, air cleaner, dizzy, oil pressure, temp sensor, petrol, ground from battery, ] electrical and mechanical, the exhaust manifold and the exhaust where it bolts to the gearbox, the starter, the engine mounts, probably small sump, radiator, bonnet, engine to gearbox bolts, support gearbox, and an engine hoist. When you put it back you need a new exhaust gasket, gasket for sump and crank vent.
    Plus you either need a hoist for the engine or hire one.
    The first way requires no gaskets and only moderate jacking of the rear end.

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    Having done both, Removing the gearbox isn't bad if a) you can get the back up high enough b) fit two rims without tyres to roll the assembly back c) make a simple cradle to drop in the floor jack to hold the box on the right angle still a bugger no matter which way you come at it, tho better than an R12!!!

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    Personally I think it's far easier to take out the gearbox and roll the diff back.
    If you look at the number of things that need disconnecting I think this is far easier than engine out.
    It's handbrake cable, shocker tops, stabilizer bar, rear torque tube bolts, rear gearbox mount, and then roll drive shaft out of the way.
    Then it's clutch mount and gearlinkages , starter, speedo, engine gearbox plates and then gearbox to engine bolts and you're in. The gearbox is light enough to be supported on your chest as you get it down, so all you need is to lift the back of the car body a bit.
    The other way it's all the cables ,[throttle, choke, air cleaner, dizzy, oil pressure, temp sensor, petrol, ground from battery, ] electrical and mechanical, the exhaust manifold and the exhaust where it bolts to the gearbox, the starter, the engine mounts, probably small sump, radiator, bonnet, engine to gearbox bolts, support gearbox, and an engine hoist. When you put it back you need a new exhaust gasket, gasket for sump and crank vent.
    Plus you either need a hoist for the engine or hire one.
    The first way requires no gaskets and only moderate jacking of the rear end.
    Although it's a long time since I've worked on a 403 I remember my brother and I being able to get an engine out in 20 mins. We never removed the lower sump and I think we unbolted the exhaust manifold from the engine and re-used the old gaskets with a coating of whatever.

    From a safety point of view I'm still not a fan of doing it the other way - rear axle and gearbox out. Although the gearbox may not be particularly heavy, the older I get the more cautious I become. I think I'd rather be working in the engine bay than laying under a car juggling a gearbox.

    To each his own I suppose.

  18. #18
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    Default got the engine out

    got the engine out, found the problem was with two off the presure plate springs, also found out that I have a broken distributor clamp, checked the main(050) and conrods(std) bearings. Any idea where I could get a distributor clamp.

  19. #19
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    are you referring to the clip that holds the cap on ?
    if so look art other makes of cars with dissy are similar

  20. #20
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    are you referring to the clip that holds the cap on ?
    if so look at other makes of cars with dissy are similar

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugeotnut View Post
    got the engine out, found the problem was with two off the presure plate springs, also found out that I have a broken distributor clamp, checked the main(050) and conrods(std) bearings. Any idea where I could get a distributor clamp.
    I have available the alloy distributor piece that fits in the block.
    Graham

  22. #22
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    Default yup the alloy piece.

    yes it's the alloy piece, hope i attached the pictures correctly.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pu4 403 clutch plate replacement-clutch-clamp.jpg  

  23. #23
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    Default nope

    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    are you referring to the clip that holds the cap on ?
    if so look art other makes of cars with dissy are similar

    not that clip, anyway have attached the picture

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by peugeotnut View Post
    yes it's the alloy piece, hope i attached the pictures correctly.
    Yes, have that I also have the clip for the pressure plate.
    Graham

  25. #25
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    Default 403 pressure plate = Alfa 1300 pressure plate

    fyi....

    just found a new old stock pressure plate labelled Alfa Romeo 1300, only difference is that it has 9 springs compared to the 403 that has 6 springs.

    also found the clutch bearing with a layer of carbon labelled 404/504. but i will stick to the original i configuration I guess.


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