306 hdi cutting out
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  1. #1
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    Default 306 hdi cutting out

    just had a call from my son whos 306 hdi just cut out when he reved it past 3 grand ,cranks over but wont start ,he got out locked the door opened again and starts no prob ,rev past 3 grand ,same story ,any ideas, is this some kind of limp home mode ,PUGS ,its a 2 litre but i dont have any more details, till he gets it home ,driving it sparingly

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Meggsy's Avatar
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    Default

    Sound migfhty like a blocked fuel filter how long has he had the car and how mank K's has it done --- its really hard to diagnose but I would look at the filter first
    Good luck
    Meggsy
    Current - 4007HDi
    Had - 407 HDI 406 SV 404, 504, 505 GR and STI. 405 GR ( carbie version) STI, MI16
    And an Austin 1800
    Learnt to drive in 203 Convertible and a 403 SW

  3. #3
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    Default had a quick took

    this morning tried to start but just spluttered . this evening i have fuel going into the filter and coming out when the ignition is on ,[didnt check when it was cranking ],now no go ,but could have a bleeding problem ,have disconnected the battery for a while ,see what that douse i was suspecting the tank pump ,as its been stopping on 1/4 tank .but it has a full tank and its Commeing out of the filter heading to the mechanical pump ,PUGS

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    Default

    Process of elimination;

    1] Fuel supply: Any leaks around the injectors ? Have you bled the fuel filter ? Could have air in the system. Check last time it was replaced. Fuel filters should be replaced every 40,000kms.

    2] Electrical: Low battery output resulting in fuel cut off valve not staying open or faulty fuel cut off valve [ ignition key circuit ]. Faulty crank position sensor

    3] Mechanical: Loss of compression. Failed Turbo. [ Take off intake hose from turbo and feel spline shaft for excessive play ]

    Rare but possible: Bad fuel or Petrol in Diesel.

    Any warning lights on the dash ? What happened prior to the cutting out ? Loss of power or any noticable noise ?

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    Try chucking some jumper leads on it and see if it will start.
    A bad battery can cause some strange things.

    Also have you had any problems with surging.
    Fuel pressure regulator problems are common on the early HDi engines and normally starts with surging and progresses to not running.

  6. #6
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    Default Deisel guy says

    its the pressure pump , no pressure from the pump ,anybody got one tucked under the bench ,or a dead motor .its a 2000 306 hdi PUGS

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    Have you had the pump bench tested to be sure.
    A new pump is a lot of money and a lot of work.

  8. #8
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    Default pump

    Second that ,been doing lots of ringing around and am getting some ,conflicting imfo ,had one lined up from a 307 hdi but turns out to be a different pump ,can get a reco exchange one out of UK for a good price, a new one is half the price of the car ,some are saying the pump will have to be initiated to the ECU others not ,the pump has some senders and dump valves on it ,which can play up but im told dont usualy just die ,we have another car to use so ,im backing off a bit and checking my options ,thanks for the reply ,PUGS

  9. #9
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    G'day,

    Just wondering how this all ended up? Problem solved????

    I'm sure others would be interested too.

    Cheers

  10. #10
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    Default Update

    just installed a reco exchange pump from p e Jones old Trafford Manchester $425 with outward freight ,we are trying to find a resnable price to return the old one ,it runs well ,although it appears to be loosing its prime ,as it requires some turning over when it is left for a while but will start again no probs ,the engine shuts down if its reved over 3 grand ,has to be stopped and started again ,the orange engine light comes on ,so im trying to get onto my mechanic to get the codes out of the ECU ,maybe it will be ok once the faults are cleared .somethings upsetting it ,the two problems could be related , could also be the ecu thinks its way overdue for a service ,its been done but not entered on the ecu ,it had this fault originaly so im hoping the guy who did the diagnosis hasnt given me a bum steer ,keep you posted PUGS

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    It sounds like a fuel supply issue to me.
    These engines will shut down if it detects a fuel supply problem to protect the pump.

    See if you can find out what fault codes are present, as they will hopefully steer you in the right direction.
    I find these ECU's normal clear themselves once a problem is fixed.
    Last edited by gromzx; 29th October 2011 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Extra info

  12. #12
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    Default well

    the start up problem seems to have sorted itself .i now nave to get it up and get the codes read ,i replaced the tank pump about 6 mths ago with a non standard one ,for cost and time restraints at the time, it has been good so far ,but running out of fuel at 1/4 tank has me wondering it theres something going on in the tank unit ,but i will go the codes first ,it also ran out of reg on friday so will also have to go for an inspection ,no problems ,it dousnt rain but it pours .PUGS

  13. #13
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    Default checked codes

    a few things and low rail pressure ,cleared codes ,drove it reved to 4 1/2 cut out re read codes low rail pressure, so it would seem that it has to be the pressure sender or the dump valve /regulator on the rail ,cant say iv acheived anything by replacing the pump but at least its running now and the fault has moved up 1500 revs , rego was no problem ,will ring my diesel guy to diagnose ,keep you posted PUGS, MELBOURNE CUP DAY DONT LIKE MY CHANCES

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    The fuel pressure regulator is on the back of the fuel pump.
    Its vary easy to change. 1 plug, 2 bolts and it just slides out and fit the new one with new seals. Its common for these to fail on the early 2 litre Hdi's.
    If you have good fuel flow to the pump and no fuel leaks, this is the likely cause.
    Don't pay the over the top peugeot price. you can get original Bosch ones for $400 if you know where to look.
    Any good diesel specialist should be able to bench test this for you. (you should be able to find one the specialises in common rail to test it for you and supply a new one for a good cost.)

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by gromzx; 1st November 2011 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Fix bad link

  15. #15
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    Default new punp

    the new pump came complete ,so im thinking it has to be in the rail .PUGS

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    Default

    the only things in the rail is the pressure sensor and the fuel temp sensor.
    There are no pressure control valves or dump valves on the rail at all.

    Maybe excess bypass through the injectors, or an electrical problem and the 3rd piston is not activating, or maybe its just air getting into the fuel system.

  17. #17
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    Default some pumps

    apparently some pressure pumps havnt got a lot of lift only push ,which takes me back to the tank pump ,not delivering enough volume at higher revs ,now that its regoed and running its back on the road so i cant get my hands on it ,maybe on the weekend PUGS

  18. #18
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    Default Update

    pulled the tank unit out ,the micro filter that came with the pump i fitted 12 mths ago was too large so i bent it at right angles to fit , reducing the filter area to the size of the pump inlet ,it was blocked with stuff ,cleaned it out re fitted test drive proved no change , in desperation removed filter all together ,you can run the engine to 4000 at standstill but when driving it cuts out at 2500 ,and its been difficult to start after removing the tank unit .Gave my son the diesel guys number ,[need some test gear too many variables ] he told me this morning the guy cant look at it for a couple of days but it ran perfectly all day yesterday ,and started first hit this morning ,he hasnt been revving it out though ,so hoping its just had to bleed the air out or something ,will give it the rev test tonight ,concerned about no filter on pump though PUGS

  19. #19
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    Default worst case scenerio

    behaved itself all day yesterday ,and past the revs test to 3500 ,so trying to convince myself the whole pump from UK episode was needed ,but it had ceased to function at all and the diesel mech said it was RS and it did start to run once the new pump was fitted ,although still with some symptoms ,give it a few more days .PUGS

  20. #20
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    Default In tank pump

    I managed to locate a second hand in tank pump ,which came complete ,started first time no worries ,except that the return line to the tank which has a rubber bend in it under the drivers side rear door ,without any clamps on it ,came adrift on the test drive ,came back home absolutely spewing diesel all over the driveway ,we had it sitting here idling for some time beforehand ,so had no warning ,i might ad that it plays up when the magic box is connected ,loosing power intermitently ,so i suspect this could have played a large part in the whole process,as far as a conclusion goes im unsure ,posibly the non standard pump hasnt been able to hack the pace with the chip [majic box] telling lies about the rail pressure ,also it would appear that the mechanical pump hasnt got much in the way of suck ,so unless the supply is there the rail pressure will drop ,so dont stuff around with non standard pumps in tank unless they can deliver the goods ,and also when importing parts on a return basis ,check out the return freight carefully, they kept a deposit of 100 pound and the best i could do was $175 for return post 5.2 kilo .but cant complain about price or jones diesel ,still worked out cheeper ,than ozz ,freight out was 60 pounds ,i figured return would be similar ,i hope thats the end of it PUGS

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! stew's Avatar
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    Default pressure

    The pressure regulators on that particular model can leak internally, pushing diesel up into the wiring loom. The diesel destroys the wire for up to 300mm as the cable loops down then back up to the harness.
    If your game, disconnect the regulator and look closely into the harness plug for signs of fuel. Caution, as the cable may be brittle due to diesel damage.
    If the wire feels flexible around the plug it is probably ok. If not get an electrician to replace the stiff wire and fit a new connector plug.
    Also when the system leaks air into itself and the engine stops the ECU will either stop the engine or go into a limp home until it is reset by a scan tool.
    Fuel filters are blocking frequently and I change them every 10 000kms.
    The plastic line from filter to high pressure pump can also leak in air. A new hose required for that problem!

  22. #22
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    Default thanks stew

    the wireing seems to be fine it runs ok on the standard set up, but not with the chip ,we thaught the plug on the chip wasnt clipping in fully but now thinking the complete add on chip[box]is dodgy, its not in a very good place to get to ,im a sparky so replacing the wireing /socket isnt a problem,sons missing the extra performance but i prefer the reliability PUGS

  23. #23
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    Default it goes on

    now the in line fuel heater, is leaking out of the electrical connection. Anyone got one lying around ,PUGS

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