Recommendations for engine machine shops
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  1. #1
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    Default Recommendations for engine machine shops

    I'm doing a 403 engine and will need the crank ground and the head reco'd.
    I'll need the crank plugs removed and cleaned and the head could need anything in valves and guides and does need a skim on the face. I'd say the flywheel could do with a cleanup as well.
    There are a few round here in Scone and Singleton and Newcastle but I'd just be happier to use a recommended place that may know Peugeot somewhat, probably in Sydney, but willing to travel.

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    Your ideas please.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Best bet for you would be Teterin Engineering, Newcastle.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I'm doing a 403 engine and will need the crank ground and the head reco'd.
    I'll need the crank plugs removed and cleaned and the head could need anything in valves and guides and does need a skim on the face. I'd say the flywheel could do with a cleanup as well.
    There are a few round here in Scone and Singleton and Newcastle but I'd just be happier to use a recommended place that may know Peugeot somewhat, probably in Sydney, but willing to travel.

    Your ideas please.
    Consider fitting "hard" exhaust valve seats and bronze exhaust guides. This will allow you use ULP

    You can remove and refit the sludge trap plugs yourself. You will need a section of m14 hex key. EAI have new plugs.
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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Consider fitting "hard" exhaust valve seats and bronze exhaust guides. This will allow you use ULP

    You can remove and refit the sludge trap plugs yourself. You will need a section of m14 hex key. EAI have new plugs.

    Luthier,
    Removing sludge trap plugs and cleaning.
    You will find the plugs have been "staked" to avoid them loosening. The stake or burring will need cleaning up before you remove the plug. A high speed grinder [Dremel] would do. Alternatively a drill mounted burr. [porting type].
    The brass plugs can be very tight, would advise using a 14mm allen socket [1/2" drive] to remove.
    Thorough cleaning of the sludge traps using pipe cleaner type wire brushes and degreaser.

    Your machine shop may prefer to polish [linish] the crank unless it is damaged ?

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Luthier,
    Removing sludge trap plugs and cleaning.
    You will find the plugs have been "staked" to avoid them loosening. The stake or burring will need cleaning up before you remove the plug. A high speed grinder [Dremel] would do. Alternatively a drill mounted burr. [porting type].
    The brass plugs can be very tight, would advise using a 14mm allen socket [1/2" drive] to remove.
    Thorough cleaning of the sludge traps using pipe cleaner type wire brushes and degreaser.

    Your machine shop may prefer to polish [linish] the crank unless it is damaged ?
    All good advice. I used a 1/2 socket with a piece of hex stock. The are very tight (and tapered)

    I ran a tap into the crank to clean up the thread and used loctite pipe sealant and less enthusiast staking than the factory to reinstall.

    The crud that came out was amazing
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  6. #6
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    EAI had nil stock of brass plugs a few months ago, might pay to check availability or take care not to drill to deep when removing the stake so that the old ones can be reused as others have mentioned, also the counterweights need to be removed for the grinder to get in to the bearing journals, saves a few $ if you do this before sending it off to the machine shop.

    Graham Lewis

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    Just as a matter of interest, where does the sludge go in 505s ? Into the bottom of the sump ? I've certainly found a lot there.
    And are 505 crankshafts designed so that it all just flows through ? If so, why did early Pugs have sludge traps ?
    And just as an afterthought, when people remove the plugs by drilling, don't they affect the crankshaft balance ?

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    Just as a matter of interest, where does the sludge go in 505s ? Into the bottom of the sump ?
    And are 505 crankshafts designed so that it all just flows through ? If so, why did early Pugs have sludge traps ?
    Sludge traps were probably a throwback to old replaceable cartridge filter.

    Perhaps modern filters were probably considered good enough to do away with sludge traps.

    Or the strength gained by having a solid crank warranted the deletion of the sludge traps.

    It could have something with later manufacturing processes allowing more accurate drilling or just cost saving.

    505 cranks are blind drilled through the journal lubrication holes. The blind end of the holes connect to allow oil flow AFAIK.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Lewis View Post
    EAI had nil stock of brass plugs a few months ago, might pay to check availability or take care not to drill to deep when removing the stake so that the old ones can be reused as others have mentioned, also the counterweights need to be removed for the grinder to get in to the bearing journals, saves a few $ if you do this before sending it off to the machine shop.

    Graham Lewis
    Neo Retro has them I think.
    I've never had an issue with the normal guides except it is hard to get them recoed due to the odd size, You can use 504 diesel guides though which are bronze IIRC.
    Get the hardened exhaust seats, won't cost much and would be worth using 504 diesel exhaust valves if you can get them, you will need to use 404/504 collets and spring retainer disc.
    Inlets OK as they are.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Sludge traps were probably a throwback to old replaceable cartridge filter.

    Perhaps modern filters were probably considered good enough to do away with sludge traps.

    Or the strength gained by having a solid crank warranted the deletion of the sludge traps.

    It could have something with later manufacturing processes allowing more accurate drilling or just cost saving.

    505 cranks are blind drilled through the journal lubrication holes. The blind end of the holes connect to allow oil flow AFAIK.
    The late 505s always have more crankshaft wear than the ones with sludge traps, cost saving I would say.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Sludge traps were probably a throwback to old replaceable cartridge filter.

    Perhaps modern filters were probably considered good enough to do away with sludge traps.

    Or the strength gained by having a solid crank warranted the deletion of the sludge traps.

    It could have something with later manufacturing processes allowing more accurate drilling or just cost saving.

    505 cranks are blind drilled through the journal lubrication holes. The blind end of the holes connect to allow oil flow AFAIK.

    robmac,
    Good clear explanation/reason for deletion of sludge traps. Do you mind if I quote you when asked?
    When you think about it,do you know of any other manufacturer having sludge traps?

    beano,
    Until you mentioned the drilling? removal of the brass plugs affecting balance? I hadn't given it a thought and I wont

    Graham,
    The later 505 cranks more prone to wear. Do you mean the XN or later Douvrin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    robmac,
    Good clear explanation/reason for deletion of sludge traps. Do you mind if I quote you when asked?
    When you think about it,do you know of any other manufacturer having sludge traps?

    beano,
    Until you mentioned the drilling? removal of the brass plugs affecting balance? I hadn't given it a thought and I wont

    Graham,
    The later 505 cranks more prone to wear. Do you mean the XN or later Douvrin?
    The later XNs, last of the carby cars and the XN6/SLi.
    Also they have a different lubrication system, if you don't fit the right main bearings the oil ways will be blocked and you will run the bearings. I think the difference is that the intermediate main bearings have oil supply channels, not a plain surface.
    Graham

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    robmac,

    Good clear explanation/reason for deletion of sludge traps. Do you mind if I quote you when asked?
    When you think about it,do you know of any other manufacturer having sludge traps?
    As you may gather it's just my take /reasoning based on stuffing up/ repairing/ a few engines.

    I haven't had the experience with other marques of some other members, I've worked on BMC A and B series motors from about 8 years old on with my bro's MiniCooper and MGB, Peugeot motors after that with a 203 and then 403, a 404 converted to 504 engine later on.

    A temporary lost of sanity with a foray into Datsun L series when I lusted into Datsun 1600.

    The purchase of 504TI with blown head gasket very cheaply made the Sale of 1600 necessary.

    Feel free to use any of my posts, after all, my in posting is to share the little I know and to be entertained and provide the same.
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  14. #14
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    And very entertaining it has been here, thanks for all the good oil.
    I do know of sludge traps in Moto Guzzi and Norton and I think they were in Rover as well.

    Pete Coates has also kindly pointed out the need to shave a little bit off the thrust face in the event of having a crank grind because the undersize bearing is slightly longer, and endfloat will be reduced. It's this kind of knowledge that is incredibly valuable, along with the advice that 504 diesel valve guides and valves can be used in the 403.
    It is also why I wanted to find a place familiar with Peugeot. So thanks I'll call the place in Newcastle mentioned by PeterT and see if they are familiar with 403.
    I have been to L.W. Parry a couple of times and I think they did a pretty good job, but it cost a fair bit and both times I had unrelated disasters with the engines, so there's a hesitance to go back.
    Compared to a bloke in Burwood Road Hawthorn, Melbourne, who just did everything so easily and cheaply, and saved me money wherever he could, was he called Premium Engineering?

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