Cold start - electronic air injection issues.
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Thread: Cold start - electronic air injection issues.

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Cold start - electronic air injection issues.

    Hi All, I'm pretty new to these forums... Manage to solve most of the minor hiccups and problems with my Peugeot, but this one's got me completely baffled.

    Can anybody explain how the cold air injector works on cold start? what this system does and where I should be looking for faults? I've got a 307 XSE touring 2.0l petrol.

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    On cold start the Electronic air injector starts up and runs for maybe a minute or so. I understand this is normal, and from what I gather, the cold air injector pushes air into the cylinder head (exhaust???) to help warm up the cat converter to reduce emissions.

    The problem I have, is during this period when the electronic air injector is running, the car runs pretty terribly. Idle is super smooth and starts up easy, however, when you take off the car really seems to get bogged down, as if the mixture is way to rich or lean... Almost stalls. I usually wait for it to stop before I drive off...

    Anybody had a similar experience? Or can explain how this air injector actually works? Somebody has mentioned that there are channels in the head which can sometimes get block with carbon build up etc, which could interfere with the system... I'm running out of ideas. No error codes when scanned, and otherwise the car runs fantastic.

    Any ideas or advise would be greatly appreciated!!

  2. #2
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day Danno,

    if yours is like the 180, you need to let the car warm up for at least a minute or so before driving off. I let all the dash warning lights go through their cycle and turn off before I start to go. The longer the better, but at least a minute.
    Otherwise, it drives like a pig.
    regards,
    Les W.


    206 GTi 180
    the stealth Pug
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  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Hey guys, any clues on this topic? Yes I can sit there and wait for the air injector to stop - but that's not normal operation! There's something not quite right causing the problem.

    Any ideas people??

  4. #4
    BCM
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    Just googling bought this up.

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/41/air-pump/

    Sounds to me as though it's simply a system to allow the car to supply extra oxygen to the exhaust gases to allow the catalytic convertor to burn more of the pollutants coming out of the car. This would be especially useful on cold start up.

    Generally you have to run a richer mix during cold start because fuel does not vaporize as well when cold and therefore requires more fuel to properly "saturate" the air. From the googling I've just done, it appears that the catalytic convertors are most efficient at or near the stoichometric point for the fuels they are designed for. If the car is running rich, you need more O2 to get the gases back to that point for the cat to work most efficiently.

    Based on that I'm struggling to see how the air injector would affect the performance of the car as its sole purpose is to reduce emissions downstream of the engine.

    The only thing I can think of is the possibility that the oxygen is injected up stream of the O2 sensor and the injector is not working correctly and the ECU doesn't know it. Then potentially if the car was running in closed loop and the O2 sensor was seeing a more or less oxygen in the exhuast gases it could have an effect on the fuelling the ECU uses. However I wouldn't expect the car to be running in closed loop at startup. Generally cars startup in open loop and work directly off the fuel and timing maps.

    I'm wondering if the air injector is a red herring and it's actually something else causing a problem with the cold start. Like an air leak somewhere or a faulty fuel injector. Once the car is running in closed loop something like that can be "hidden" by the ECU correcting for what it's seeing. In open loop it can't.

    Edit: The other option is of course that Peugeot aren't very good at tuning cold start. My GTi 180 isn't very good on startup either. In fact it's by far the worst car I've ever owned from that point of view. And that includes an Evo 9 with an Autronics ECU in it.
    Last edited by BCM; 14th August 2011 at 05:47 PM.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! cme2c's Avatar
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    I'm with BCM. The air is injected into the exhaust. More modern cars sometimes manipulate camshaft timings to achieve the same effect, but not the old 2l.

    Mine is ok when stone cold, runs like a pig until the water temp reaches 70, then is fine. I'm getting the computer interrogated and will pass on results YMMV.

    John
    206 GTi 2003
    VW Golf 118TSI 2009 ( the wife's)
    Bedford CF 1980
    Valiant VJ Ranger 1974
    "Driving a 206GTi makes you feel like you're 18" Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Hi all, sorry for digging up such an old thread, just wanted to post an update - I still haven't solved this problem. I've learnt to live with it... It seems that many 180 owners suffer from this same annoyance. Wait 90 seconds before driving off. Well, this corresponds with the time the air injector pump is running during cold start up. If you give the car a good rev, the air pump stops and it runs OK.

    Has anybody removed the air injector pump altogether on a 307 or 180? My guess is that perhaps there are some blocked air paths inside the head which is stuffing up the flow of air and causing some weird mixtures...

    Any thoughts?

  7. #7
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    I have a system, don't we all ?
    Turn the key so all the lights come on, fasten the seat belt, all the lights should be off by now, start the engine.
    regards,
    Les W.


    206 GTi 180
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    Did I do anything last night that suggested I was sane?








  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 307Danno View Post
    Hi all, sorry for digging up such an old thread, just wanted to post an update - I still haven't solved this problem. I've learnt to live with it... It seems that many 180 owners suffer from this same annoyance. Wait 90 seconds before driving off. Well, this corresponds with the time the air injector pump is running during cold start up. If you give the car a good rev, the air pump stops and it runs OK.

    Has anybody removed the air injector pump altogether on a 307 or 180? My guess is that perhaps there are some blocked air paths inside the head which is stuffing up the flow of air and causing some weird mixtures...

    Any thoughts?
    I would also love to know if anybody has been able to simply remove or repair the secondary air injection? My 180 has the same rough start when the pump is on, if its cold weather it will even stall.
    Doee anybody know WHY the secondary air injection makes start up so bad?

    Sent from my SM-G950F using aussiefrogs mobile app
    .....................___............
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  9. #9
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Pure speculation on my part, but I suspect it has something to do with coking up of the air ports in the cylinder head.

    That may be because of poor oil choices, poor oil change strategy or simply old age. An Italian tune up could be in order.

    I never used to let mine warm up before driving it. I just drove it gently until the oil temp rose. It never stalled on me but only had 90k and 4 years on it when I sold it.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2014 208 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  10. #10
    Member Anzactuck's Avatar
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    My ports are immaculate... not sure if thats from fuel additives/throttle body cleaner, but I have used liqui-moly gold and other fuel system treatments you put in your fuel.
    The EW10J4S doesnt have EGR and you can see the difference between the J4 (with EGR) and the J4S (without EGR).
    Cold start - electronic air injection issues.-1520435136183.jpg
    Is there a way for the Secondary Air Injection system to become clogged? I will take it apart and have a look tomorrow. Also Ill have a visual inspection of my Cat converter just incase

    Sent from my SM-G950F using aussiefrogs mobile app
    .....................___............
    ..............___/_] [\ ..........
    .............(O)===(O)..........
    ....Peugeot 206 GTi 180....

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I think BCM is probably right (cme2c too); something that just injects air into the exhaust isn't likely to make the engine run badly.

    To reword BCM's hypothesis a bit...

    It's most likely something the computer's deciding to do. e.g. Subarus detect air pump failure by seeing too little oxygen after the catalytic converter during the time the computer has commanded the pump to run (just after starting). They tell you about the problem, then, to encourage you to spend the considerable $$$ to fix it, they disable the cruise control -- for no more reason than to be bastards.

    So, perhaps:
    1. the pump isn't working properly (e.g. stuck valve)
    2. the Peugeot oxygen sensor software hasn't considered this possibility and just reports "too little oxygen"
    3. the feedback software leans off the mixture to get rid of that report

    and you end up running very lean for a cold engine.

    If that's right, disabling the pump isn't going to help. You'd need to fix the pump, fool the sensor somehow, or change the ECU software.

    So Peugeot's software mightn't be as helpful as Subaru's, but at least your cruise control still works!

    Have fun.

    Rob.

  12. #12
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    With petrol engines operating at the stoichiometric ratio, catalytic converters are very efficient, over 90%, but only after the converter has reached a temperature over 300 degrees.

    The highest emission rates are at cold start when the converter is inefficient, so air is pumped into the exhaust stream to initiate oxidation of the unburnt hydrocarbons. The extra heat brings the converter up quickly.

    There is pressure in the exhaust stream. A faulty pump or valve can upset the air/injected fuel ratio and roughen running.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 307Danno View Post
    Hi All, I'm pretty new to these forums... Manage to solve most of the minor hiccups and problems with my Peugeot, but this one's got me completely baffled.

    Can anybody explain how the cold air injector works on cold start? what this system does and where I should be looking for faults? I've got a 307 XSE touring 2.0l petrol.

    On cold start the Electronic air injector starts up and runs for maybe a minute or so. I understand this is normal, and from what I gather, the cold air injector pushes air into the cylinder head (exhaust???) to help warm up the cat converter to reduce emissions.

    The problem I have, is during this period when the electronic air injector is running, the car runs pretty terribly. Idle is super smooth and starts up easy, however, when you take off the car really seems to get bogged down, as if the mixture is way to rich or lean... Almost stalls. I usually wait for it to stop before I drive off...

    Anybody had a similar experience? Or can explain how this air injector actually works? Somebody has mentioned that there are channels in the head which can sometimes get block with carbon build up etc, which could interfere with the system... I'm running out of ideas. No error codes when scanned, and otherwise the car runs fantastic.

    Any ideas or advise would be greatly appreciated!!
    Have you performed a cold start auto adapters reset? Hook up the laptop & go through the menus. The engine must be dead cold & perform the procedure as instructed. I seem to have to do this every two years on my EW10A engined CitroŽn’s, it makes a huge improvement. I’m thinking of replacing the Lambda sensors in the exhaust system (one pre & post catalytic converters) as thinking they might be the reason it slowly goes back to playing up. At it’s worst the cars start fine then go to move off, faulters, hickups can even stall; No power to take off etc. once re-set they are like a new car with no need to wait for pump or lights etc. Good luck.
    Last edited by Jinandfonic; 12th March 2018 at 10:00 AM.
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Folks,

    I helped Mr Fonic perform this reset. In Diagbox, it was called a 'Pack Repair' operation under the engine activities tab.

    Cheers, Ken
    Jinandfonic likes this.

  15. #15
    Member tazfrog's Avatar
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    Our 2003 307XSEA with EW10J4 2.0 ltr does the same.
    Start from cold and the extra air pump works fine and
    shuts off after about a minute and then when you engage
    Drive, then Reverse, it shudders like crazy.
    Everything us super smooth once abit of heat gets into the motor.
    I have already replaced the engine coolant temp. sensor but it still does it.
    While the engine was operating during a cold start up with air pump working
    I sprayed half a can of CataKleen down the bore of the pump.
    Just pull up and remove the cover where the filter lives....it's only a foam
    arrangement...I think our engine ate this years ago....spray until the pump shuts off.
    I think at 186,000klm, the O2 sensors are due to be replaced.
    The car is going to the dealers in Launceston next week for a full diagnostics.
    I keep getting two codes popping up P0410 and P0455 which both relate to
    emissions.
    Once the car reaches normal operating temps, everything is super smooth
    and very responsive.
    I used a sonic cleaning bath to clean the injectors a couple of weeks ago.
    Last edited by tazfrog; 18th March 2018 at 12:11 AM.
    Cheers from Tazfrog
    2003 307 XSEA EW10J4 2.0 ltr petrol AL4
    China Blue with Charcoal interior

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