2.0 HDi engine question
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  1. #1
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    Default 2.0 HDi engine question

    Hi all,

    Being a Pug diesel convert for a number of years, I recently bought the wife an 07 Focus diesel (PSA / Ford engine) to replace the Territory.

    A very nice car I have to say and one that I occasionally drive to work on my night shifts. Here in lies the problem.

    Last week it was -3 and -2 degrees at 7.00 am after each of my shifts and I have to say the heater in the car is bloody hopeless. I shouldn't blame the heater as the engine itself seems to take ages to warm up.

    Is this normal for these engines? It runs around 90 degrees (just under) once warmed up but compared to my old 405 Pug (this thing makes heat inside 2 k's), its just too uncomfortable to drive the 12 km trip home in such cool conditions.

    Any ideas? Normally I would change the thermostat but I thought I might ask others first to see what the general consensus is with these things.

    These engines as I understand it, are basically the same as whats used in the 307, 308 and 407's 2.0 HDi's.

    How do the owners of these fine cars find their heaters / engine warm up time?

    Cheers.

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! jurgen_s's Avatar
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    here in europe they come almost standard with winter kit in countries that have something that looks like winter. I drive 200 m's and it already blows hot air due to the electric heater unit that heats up the cooling water very quickly.
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    Yes, both my 306 and my dads 407 (both 2.0 Hdi's) take 20min+ to warm up.
    In fact in my 306 it takes some extreme conditions and about 30min of not moving (from operating temp) for the engine to get hot enough for the cooling fans to kick in.

    These are super efficient engine that produce little heat.

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    The Ford website says it's the Duratorq engine. Is that the PSA one?
    Our 2.0 HDi warms up reasonably quickly. We never really have any problems with heat and we get some morning below zero here in the Barossa.

  5. #5
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBvisitor View Post
    Hi all,

    Being a Pug diesel convert for a number of years, I recently bought the wife an 07 Focus diesel (PSA / Ford engine) to replace the Territory.

    A very nice car I have to say and one that I occasionally drive to work on my night shifts. Here in lies the problem.

    Last week it was -3 and -2 degrees at 7.00 am after each of my shifts and I have to say the heater in the car is bloody hopeless. I shouldn't blame the heater as the engine itself seems to take ages to warm up.

    Is this normal for these engines? It runs around 90 degrees (just under) once warmed up but compared to my old 405 Pug (this thing makes heat inside 2 k's), its just too uncomfortable to drive the 12 km trip home in such cool conditions.

    Any ideas? Normally I would change the thermostat but I thought I might ask others first to see what the general consensus is with these things.

    These engines as I understand it, are basically the same as whats used in the 307, 308 and 407's 2.0 HDi's.

    How do the owners of these fine cars find their heaters / engine warm up time?

    Cheers.


    I'm currently driving a 307 2 litre HDi and I must say about the only thing good about it is the heater. In the morning with the temperature around 0 degrees its hot within 2kms.
    David Cavanagh

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  6. #6
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    Thanks for the replies all. The plot thickens, hmmmm.

    Its interesting to note that some do get hot quite quickly and some don't.

    Yes sgt_doofey, Duratotq and HDi are one and the same (a few minor diifferences of course).

    Thanks again.

  7. #7
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    The 406 HDi is heating by the time i get to the road. Ok, it's nearly 2km away, but only a couple of minutes.

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    Isn't it part of the Euro V specification that the engine has to warm up to get to the optimal operating temperature in a certain time frame?
    Aren't the 2.0L HDi Euro V compliant?

  9. #9
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgt_doofey View Post
    Aren't the 2.0L HDi Euro V compliant?
    Since late 2010 in Australian-delivered Pugs - not before then. Only the 120kW versions, AFAIK.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    The engine cooling system on our 308 HDi is very efficient - I've got warm air out of the heater within a few hundred metres, and the engine shows full temp - in Sydney Winter - within a few k's. These engines warm very quickly - as modern engines need to for proper efficiency.

    My 306 on the other hand, since new, takes about 10 - 15km's in Winter to reach full temp.

    Someone previously here claimed that they had a 306 with a HDi engine - I'm pretty sure that's not accurate unless they've had a transplant from a very much later model car.

    In Europe you can get a blanking plate for the lower grill on the 308...I wonder if something like that is available for the Focus ?

    Just wondering - do you use winterised fuel ? Is that just the standard fuel in Tassie in winter anyway ?

    Cheers

    Justin
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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    Don't know about a modern engines but slow to heat issues usually traced back to a thermostat fault.
    If the car has an electric preheater then it must be the relay, sensor or timer.

  12. #12
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    Thanks again for all the replies. Will try and dig further my next lot of days off.

    N5GTi6, as a matter of fact, they did release a 306 (the same series as yours) with an HDi, but I think from memory it didn't have an intercooler. I remember taking one for a test drive a few years ago.

    Cheers.

  13. #13
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBvisitor View Post
    Thanks again for all the replies. Will try and dig further my next lot of days off.

    N5GTi6, as a matter of fact, they did release a 306 (the same series as yours) with an HDi, but I think from memory it didn't have an intercooler. I remember taking one for a test drive a few years ago.

    Cheers.
    Yep, the late model 306 sedan did in fact come with the HDi engine, in 2000 and 2001, in XT trim.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  14. #14
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    Default 2 L HDI eng. temp.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Yep, the late model 306 sedan did in fact come with the HDi engine, in 2000 and 2001, in XT trim.
    I can assure N5GTi that HDi (DW 10, 8v.) engines were in fact available in Pug 306 N5's in Australia from eary 2000 on replacing the 1.9 DW 8 range. The same engine also appeared in early 307's and the 406 D9 with an intercooler and is arguably are the best recent Peugeot built.(306 that is)

    The 307 Hdi was invigorated in 2005 with 2 new engines, 1.6 and 2.0 l, both 16valve and FAP filters.

    As i have said before my 306 HDi would take about twice as long as a petrol eng. to reach full operating temperature on the gauge, but the heater is effective after 5 minutes or so,but taking longer to be really hot. This is strange as the 306 petrol version is one of the quickest acting around.(we have several)

    I removed the thermostat when i first purchased suspecting a problem but was ok
    Having spoken to 4 or 5 other 306 Hdi owners, have found they all seem to run at around 73 deg. C, although having a 83 deg. thermostat. They must have a heavy duty cooling system allowing for heavy work/towing etc, with the later models opting for more creature comforts, in fact flimsier in everyway.

    To compare apples with apples FBvisitor you need to track down another Focus owner to compare. They may be same eng. but everything else different. Maybe a rad. blind is required.

    I suspect it could be the nature of the beast

    Alain
    Last edited by Alain; 2nd August 2011 at 06:38 PM.

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    Thanks again for the all the replies.

    N5GTi6, only one type of diesel available in my area (North West coast).

    Alain, I have been running another thread on the same topic on Ford Forums. You're most probably right, it does in fact appear to be the nature of this particular beast, although there has been a faulty thermostat mentioned that was replaced under warranty.

    I think I shall just keep an eye on the situation and keep driving the Pug to work on night shifts until SWMBO complains about it.

    Cheers

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! wombat200's Avatar
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    My 2.0lt Hdi 307 certainly takes longer to warm up than the petrol engined 307 we had before it.....

    The service manager did in fact confirm that the Hdi's heaters take longer to warm up than the petrol models, but that said, I'm still getting warm air after 3-4kms

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBvisitor View Post
    Any ideas? Normally I would change the thermostat but I thought I might ask others first to see what the general consensus is with these things.

    These engines as I understand it, are basically the same as whats used in the 307, 308 and 407's 2.0 HDi's.

    How do the owners of these fine cars find their heaters / engine warm up time?
    You should check with a Ford dealer.

    The secret to a fast heater response (100-200m for my Citroen C4 and Pug 307 before it) in a PSA diesel vehicle is the electrical heater which is fitted to the airbox to do just that - provide warm air from cold.

    It is hard to believe that Ford would have left that off their air box, but is always possible. It's a frighteningly expensive item to replace in a PSA vehicle - mine was done under warranty.

    If your thermostat is not closing properly/completely it would increase the warm-up time. My 2.0L engine (same as your Focus) would reach operating temperature within 5 to 6km.

    Best regards

    Trevor G

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor G View Post
    You should check with a Ford dealer.

    The secret to a fast heater response (100-200m for my Citroen C4 and Pug 307 before it) in a PSA diesel vehicle is the electrical heater which is fitted to the airbox to do just that - provide warm air from cold.

    It is hard to believe that Ford would have left that off their air box, but is always possible. It's a frighteningly expensive item to replace in a PSA vehicle - mine was done under warranty.

    If your thermostat is not closing properly/completely it would increase the warm-up time. My 2.0L engine (same as your Focus) would reach operating temperature within 5 to 6km.

    Best regards

    Trevor G

    Trevor Thank goodness you brought up the electric heater...they're the best in all conditions...(I understand some Toyotas use that sytem too).

    John

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromzx View Post
    Yes, both my 306 and my dads 407 (both 2.0 Hdi's) take 20min+ to warm up.
    Or 5 to 6km of winter driving.

    Just a reminder that engines should always be treated gently until they come up to operating temperature.

    Cheers

    TG

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurgen_s View Post
    here in europe they come almost standard with winter kit in countries that have something that looks like winter. I drive 200 m's and it already blows hot air due to the electric heater unit that heats up the cooling water very quickly.
    The electric heater is fitted in the airbox. It looks like a mini radiator or intercooler.

    It heats up the air in the airbox, not the cooling water.

    That is for Australian models, anyway.

    Regards

    Trevor G

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBvisitor View Post
    Thanks for the replies all. The plot thickens, hmmmm.

    Its interesting to note that some do get hot quite quickly and some don't.
    That's because there are currently 2 undefined conditions at work.

    If we actually get the respondents to observe their temperature gauges they will notice:

    1) Warm air starts flowing from the airbox within 10-20 seconds of starting (due to the electric air heater in the airbox)

    2) That air gets warmer before the temperature gauge ever shows any rise

    3) The temperature gauge will require 5 to 6 km before it shows normal temperature and

    4) At some stage in those first few ks the electric heater switches off and the car's cooling system becomes the main source of cabin heat.

    I'm not sure how far back the electric heater was fitted, but it certainly is in all 307s from 2005 on. I imagine it has been there for many years, actually, and that those who don't experience quick cabin heating have an electric heating unit which has failed.

    Regards

    Trevor G

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