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  1. #1
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    Default Unearthed 203's

    I just got home from a massive trip to Melbourne to liberate a couple of cars from a long incarceration in a dingy damp Brunswick back yard.

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    Many thanks to Greenfrog and his wonderful family for their help with the loading and the transaction.

    One car is a late model with a bit of rust. The other is an early model with much less rust, but no motor.

    With the spares provided I will probably begin restoring the older car, but I expect to be obliged to do up the other one as well, once other parts are sourced.

    Looks like I won't be bored any time soon.

    Here's the late one, which I had to leave at a mate's place:



    And here's the early one which is safely at home in my shed as we speak:



    The poor old hilux didn't know what hit it.

    I'm particularly excited by this early car with sunroof and no quarter vents.

    I think she's going to be a deep metallic grey as sampled from the inside of the boot, with dark red leather upholstery. Looks like I'll be getting a mig welder to complete these projects.

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    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Nice work. Did you make two trips to get the two cars?
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



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    Grey was one of the colours of the early cars and was quite common. The French called it steel grey. I have the Peugeot code for the paint but no formula. Does it have eyebrow trim (the trim strips along the top of the front guards)? I see you have scored an intact rear badge. They can be quite expensive on ebay if someone wants them. If you are going to keep the original gearbox, don't take the condition of the rear gearbox mount or the universal joint in the torque tube for granted. I had to replace both of mine subsequently in separate jobs and the early model has little clearance in the transmission tunnel. It's the sort of job that justifies having children because you can usually trick one into doing the cramped work.

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    Default 203s

    Well done!!!! Just amazing how these old girls keep surfacing so good luck with the restoration. Give a yell if bits needed as you never know I may just have it in my "shop".

    Does any body know if rear box mounts are still beingb rerubbered in OZ? Some procured for the redex Rerun 2003 were apparently not too sound.

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Far North Kiwi View Post
    Well done!!!! Just amazing how these old girls keep surfacing so good luck with the restoration. Give a yell if bits needed as you never know I may just have it in my "shop".

    Does any body know if rear box mounts are still beingb rerubbered in OZ? Some procured for the redex Rerun 2003 were apparently not too sound.

    Dave
    I have a couple of genuine Peugeot early rear mounts available, one new and another as good as.
    Plenty of mechanical bits as well.
    Graham

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    Well rescued !! pity we did not catch up, we were on the Hume yesterday heading north !

    cheers

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    Graham

    I am interested in your new early gearbox mount. Please PM your price including postage.

    Norm

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    She's got the eyebrow trim which seems fairly rare?
    Someone has done a job on the gearbox and drive train apparently, with new bearings in the gearbox and the rest looks to have been worked over with new paint. Who knows what went on inside?I may end up fitting the 403 spare diff and axles anyway.
    Still unsure about the mounting as there's no motor and it's all flogging about quite a bit. Probably would have suffered from having the rear axle secured for transporting while the body bounced around on the springs, but no rear shockers in place.

    Question: Are rear shockers interchangeable between early and late? Probably not as I know front ones aren't.

    There seems to be a spare gearbox mount but not sure of it's condition.
    I cleaned out the inside of the car yesterday, took out the seats and all the crap. The guards were only hanging on by one bolt each so they're off. So is bonnet and boot and door pins are almost out with a lot of whacking and oil.
    The front spring and shockers are on loan from Mal Goodwin so I'm planning to swap the front end from the other car which has 403 brakes as well.
    In fact I reckon I'll need much of the other car to make up what is missing on this old one. It's been stripped of all hard brake lines although they are here in the spares pile. It was bought as a spare rolling shell though so has no radiator or lights, master cylinder, air cleaner, regulator, and so on.
    The control knobs are disintegrated but the old light switch may be OK. The steering wheel is cactus. I have two spare speedos but some of the glovebox trim is gone.
    The left sill needs welding as does the left floor pan and the pan under the back seat. It has the obligatory rust holes either side of the boot too. The seats are very sad of course, particularly the rear which is badly rusted, but the front ones will probably restore with just upholstery.
    But I hit the worst rust on the roof and it comes back to pitted but fairly sound, so should fix with rust converter and a bit of spray putty. And the doors appear sound along the underside, so it's really not too bad. The other car is very rusty so at this stage I'm thinking it may have to be sacrificed. It's doors are severely rusted as are it's floors and pillars. A shame, but I won't know for sure till I get it back home for a full inspection.
    Considering fitting a 403 engine as it looks like I have the makings. Sacriledge?

    Cheers and thanks for all your thoughts.

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    With eyebrow trim that car is identical to mine and 203's. 1949/50. Rear shockers are interchangeable. There are quite a few differences early/late with the cars. Diff is one. Graham Wallis best to advise on what can be paired with what.
    4 spoke steering wheels are rare and make good money on ebay. Trim is easy enough to get - I have a 1950 wreck.
    The sunroof has to come out - easy enough - to replace the side felts that will have rust.
    403/203 engine - entirely a personal choice - what you have available may determine the outcome. Does your other car have a synchro gearbox? Some people find the old box hard to live with but there's quite a lot of work to change them over.
    A lot depends on how original you want it to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    ....... The other car is very rusty so at this stage I'm thinking it may have to be sacrificed. It's doors are severely rusted as are it's floors and pillars. A shame, but I won't know for sure till I get it back home for a full inspection.

    Cheers and thanks for all your thoughts.
    There's a fine young(?) chap over here looking for a late 203 in exactly that condition.



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    Question: Are rear shockers interchangeable between early and late? Probably not as I know front ones aren't.
    all i knew was there was a visual earlier and later and not sure when or if there weren't more types - and that the commercials etc had a wider spring ... but fronts not being interchangeable is news to me if i had a choice i'd use the later heavier just didn't think it was a forced 'decision'
    steven
    and i may yet need to know this ... is it the kingpins ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    She's got the eyebrow trim which seems fairly rare?
    Someone has done a job on the gearbox and drive train apparently, with new bearings in the gearbox and the rest looks to have been worked over with new paint. Who knows what went on inside?I may end up fitting the 403 spare diff and axles anyway.
    Still unsure about the mounting as there's no motor and it's all flogging about quite a bit. Probably would have suffered from having the rear axle secured for transporting while the body bounced around on the springs, but no rear shockers in place.

    Question: Are rear shockers interchangeable between early and late? Probably not as I know front ones aren't.

    There seems to be a spare gearbox mount but not sure of it's condition.
    I cleaned out the inside of the car yesterday, took out the seats and all the crap. The guards were only hanging on by one bolt each so they're off. So is bonnet and boot and door pins are almost out with a lot of whacking and oil.
    The front spring and shockers are on loan from Mal Goodwin so I'm planning to swap the front end from the other car which has 403 brakes as well.
    In fact I reckon I'll need much of the other car to make up what is missing on this old one. It's been stripped of all hard brake lines although they are here in the spares pile. It was bought as a spare rolling shell though so has no radiator or lights, master cylinder, air cleaner, regulator, and so on.
    The control knobs are disintegrated but the old light switch may be OK. The steering wheel is cactus. I have two spare speedos but some of the glovebox trim is gone.
    The left sill needs welding as does the left floor pan and the pan under the back seat. It has the obligatory rust holes either side of the boot too. The seats are very sad of course, particularly the rear which is badly rusted, but the front ones will probably restore with just upholstery.
    But I hit the worst rust on the roof and it comes back to pitted but fairly sound, so should fix with rust converter and a bit of spray putty. And the doors appear sound along the underside, so it's really not too bad. The other car is very rusty so at this stage I'm thinking it may have to be sacrificed. It's doors are severely rusted as are it's floors and pillars. A shame, but I won't know for sure till I get it back home for a full inspection.
    Considering fitting a 403 engine as it looks like I have the makings. Sacriledge?

    Cheers and thanks for all your thoughts.
    Front shockers are interchangeable, just the bushes are different.
    I have a set of these early shocker bushes available but as you say, maybe just use the 403 stuff.
    Don't even think of using the original brake pipes, they will be rusted through.
    I have some new 403 front hoses.
    Just a reminder that I have enough parts in excess of my own requirements to build a brand new 403 engine for somone if they are interested.
    I've had takers for both mounts but need to confirm that an early mount is what they are really after.
    Graham

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    I've just been looking at the pictures of Luthier's new acquisitions. I know the quarter vents are practical in that you can open the window without getting blasted but don't the earlier models look so much more "chic." Together with the small back window and different bootlid.

    Norm

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    Gordon started to make a mold in custom wood using a router for earlier steering wheel recast

    heard a rumor someone else was continuing on with that in PCCV,
    at least one 4 spoke wheel is required in ACT if looking at a batch?
    I have the metal remains of a 4 spoke if required

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    i love them dusty and patinated - for the lines showing more - and for the same reason the waist trim is often better absent,(see att.) - though not worrying me at all in the photos in question. Dunno bout chic prolly cheaper to use same glass in all 4 doors - i even had to check that the wagon rear wasn't the same as the early sedan (not) - now apart from the gutter line hitting it, though, what's different about the boot? the recess for plates, is it?

    acknowledging the below - quoted for illustrative purposes - with the caption:

    Garagenfund in Paris
    
Es gibt sie noch, die Träume die wahr werden. So geschehen bei einem Clubkollegen in Paris.
    In einer Tiefgarage in Paris ist er auf eine 203 Commerciale von 1955 gestossen, welche dort seit 42 Jahren abgestellt war.
    Das Fahrzeug hat originale 70'000km und das Serviceheft ist seit dem Kauf von 1955*lückenlos ausgefüllt. Der Lack hat eine dicke Staubschicht drauf, aber keinerlei Kratzer und Rost ist ein Fremdwort.
Der Motor ist blockiert, aber nicht gerissen. Die Reifen haben noch genügend Profil, sind aber etwas zu "gut gelagert".
Der Wagen wird in den nächsten*Wochen wieder auf die Strasse kommen!
    Wir dürfen auf weitere Photos und Infos gespannt sein.

    is from: http://www.zerotrois.ch/

    which is i guess is just a fancy way of saying 'unearthed from the Brunswick end of Paris...'
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Unearthed 203's-img_7040.jpg   Unearthed 203's-img_7047.jpg  
    Last edited by fnqvmuch; 24th May 2011 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 203 View Post
    I've just been looking at the pictures of Luthier's new acquisitions. I know the quarter vents are practical in that you can open the window without getting blasted but don't the earlier models look so much more "chic." Together with the small back window and different bootlid.

    Norm
    My first car was a 1952 model and I used to hate the look of the rear window, now I love it and can see it as the work of art it is.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by fnqvmuch View Post
    i love them dusty and patinated - for the lines showing more - and for the same reason the waist trim is often better absent,(see att.) - though not worrying me at all in the photos in question. Dunno bout chic prolly cheaper to use same glass in all 4 doors - i even had to check that the wagon rear wasn't the same as the early sedan (not) - now apart from the gutter line hitting it, though, what's different about the boot? the recess for plates, is it?
    Yes, nice curves around the number plate rather than the square look of the later cars.
    Graham

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    Here's one with a bit of patination - as well as corrosion & some beautiful lichens in evidence.
    Terowie, South Australia.
    1974 D Special, 2015 Fiat Panda Twinair turbo 85hp (), 2011 VW biturbo camper.

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    The French number plate went from rounded to square in 1951 and the bootlid followed the shape. Quarter vents were much loved by smokers but were with hindsight a design mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    The French number plate went from rounded to square in 1951 and the bootlid followed the shape. Quarter vents were much loved by smokers but were with hindsight a design mistake.
    yes excellent for smokers but no good when raining as the water would run along the bottom edge and drip on your leg
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    There's one on my car[the 4 spoke steering wheel that is] plus a spare but both are severely challenged in the resin department.
    The biggest problem I see with their repair is with the threaded centre. But it shouldn't be a problem with a good mold and I could use the centre from the later model as a form. I'd be inclined to cast in a simple colour like off white instead of attempting to do the mother of toilet seat effect.
    There's a particularly putrid one on google images done in horrible imitation shell but in a horrid red shade. I don't mind the one that is basically shell colour but I think a straight colour is more tasteful.
    Not sure what sort of resin to use but will enquire at Fibreglass International[FGI] where I buy my lamination resin for guitar building. I expect I'll have to do a casting in two sections but any resultant line would polish out easily.

    The quarter vents are in my opinion pretty functional as a source of air on a hot day and I don't think the earlier central vent would match the airflow either in direction or capacity, but I agree the non vented windows are more aesthetically pleasing to look at, as is the early gutter line and the boot shape.

    The front ends on the early cars have narrower springs and correspondingly narrower shocker ends so only early springs and shockers will be correct together and only early springs fit on early crossmembers. As far as I'm concerned this means they are not interchangeable so I'll be exchanging the entire front end for the late 203/ 403 type.
    Luckily they will bolt onto the same holes I'm told. Glad to know the rear shockers are interchangeable, but I'm sorely tempted to fit telescopic modern style shockers inside the coil springs. Could this be a better option? If anyone's done it I'd be interested in knowing the size and make they used. Lack of originality here would not bother me if the handling and availability of parts were improved. The 403 design seems so much better in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    There's one on my car[the 4 spoke steering wheel that is] plus a spare but both are severely challenged in the resin department.
    The biggest problem I see with their repair is with the threaded centre. But it shouldn't be a problem with a good mold and I could use the centre from the later model as a form. I'd be inclined to cast in a simple colour like off white instead of attempting to do the mother of toilet seat effect.
    There's a particularly putrid one on google images done in horrible imitation shell but in a horrid red shade. I don't mind the one that is basically shell colour but I think a straight colour is more tasteful.
    Not sure what sort of resin to use but will enquire at Fibreglass International[FGI] where I buy my lamination resin for guitar building. I expect I'll have to do a casting in two sections but any resultant line would polish out easily.

    The quarter vents are in my opinion pretty functional as a source of air on a hot day and I don't think the earlier central vent would match the airflow either in direction or capacity, but I agree the non vented windows are more aesthetically pleasing to look at, as is the early gutter line and the boot shape.

    The front ends on the early cars have narrower springs and correspondingly narrower shocker ends so only early springs and shockers will be correct together and only early springs fit on early crossmembers. As far as I'm concerned this means they are not interchangeable so I'll be exchanging the entire front end for the late 203/ 403 type.
    Luckily they will bolt onto the same holes I'm told. Glad to know the rear shockers are interchangeable, but I'm sorely tempted to fit telescopic modern style shockers inside the coil springs. Could this be a better option? If anyone's done it I'd be interested in knowing the size and make they used. Lack of originality here would not bother me if the handling and availability of parts were improved. The 403 design seems so much better in this case.
    The front shocks are all the same, just the length of bushes fitted that are different.
    You can't however, fit early springs to anything other than early king pin bottom links. You can mix and match the king pin and its bottom link to enable fitment of anything you like.
    Having said that I would reccommend the 403 front end, much stronger stub axles and bearings etc. and you can bolt on 404 early 504 hubs with their discs.
    I have fitted telescopic rear shocks, 404, in my case Konis.
    The proper way to do this is through the spring or you won't get enough travel.
    Drill a hole in the alloy axle tube then at the top I welded in Range Rover front shocker towers, these are near perfect for size and shape.
    Of course the metal in the middle of the spring contact region has to be cut away to fit the shocker.
    I use a combination of 504 front strut and 203 rear bump stop components for the bump stop.
    Probably not needed for sedate on road driving as you could then use a shocker with inbuilt bump stop.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Front shockers are interchangeable, just the bushes are different.
    I have a set of these early shocker bushes available but as you say, maybe just use the 403 stuff.
    Don't even think of using the original brake pipes, they will be rusted through.
    I have some new 403 front hoses.
    Just a reminder that I have enough parts in excess of my own requirements to build a brand new 403 engine for somone if they are interested.
    I've had takers for both mounts but need to confirm that an early mount is what they are really after.
    Graham
    I'd be very interested in a few bits to make up a good 403 engine. Don't know what I'll need till I pull the engine down so I hope those parts will still be available at that stage. I'll be mounting it on the later crossmember with the continuous engine mount bracket so that shouldn't be a problem?
    I'm wondering if the early gearbox bellhousing will go on the 403 engine? I think I've asked this before but mind like a sieve, I've forgotten. I seem to have a couple of starter motor types, including the really early one with the big lever, one that's probably 403 and another that may not even be pug. I suppose the 403 one would be the pick here as well.

    Yes some new brake hoses will be needed. How do I do the solid lines? Are they a custom thing or available as a part? Would I use the old end fittings newly silver soldered on fresh tubes? This is beyond my knowledge to date.

    I'm also wanting to discover which welder to start saving up for. Thinking maybe a mig at around 160 amps that still runs on a standard 240V supply could work? It says it can weld from .5mm to 6mm. Costs around $550.
    https://www.gasweld.com.au/products/580025
    Advice sought here from all you ace welders. I have oxy but I understand the mig may be the go for inserting floor panels and sill repairs and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I'd be very interested in a few bits to make up a good 403 engine. Don't know what I'll need till I pull the engine down so I hope those parts will still be available at that stage. I'll be mounting it on the later crossmember with the continuous engine mount bracket so that shouldn't be a problem?
    I'm wondering if the early gearbox bellhousing will go on the 403 engine? I think I've asked this before but mind like a sieve, I've forgotten. I seem to have a couple of starter motor types, including the really early one with the big lever, one that's probably 403 and another that may not even be pug. I suppose the 403 one would be the pick here as well.

    Yes some new brake hoses will be needed. How do I do the solid lines? Are they a custom thing or available as a part? Would I use the old end fittings newly silver soldered on fresh tubes? This is beyond my knowledge to date.

    I'm also wanting to discover which welder to start saving up for. Thinking maybe a mig at around 160 amps that still runs on a standard 240V supply could work? It says it can weld from .5mm to 6mm. Costs around $550.
    https://www.gasweld.com.au/products/580025
    Advice sought here from all you ace welders. I have oxy but I understand the mig may be the go for inserting floor panels and sill repairs and such.
    I think the starter motor problem is in fitting a later gearbox to a motor with an early sump, could be wrong though.
    Just keep the flare nuts and get the proper flares done on new tubing.
    I was wanting to do a complete engine build but could be talked into supplying bearings at least, I have two sets I'm prepared to let go.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet View Post
    There's a fine young(?) chap over here looking for a late 203 in exactly that condition.



    Mike.
    Jeez Mike, sending a rusty shell to the UK could be a costly exercise, and besides, I might need the occasional spare panel once I get these beauties into regular service. Can't you pick one up just across the water? Surely a Right Hand Drive conversion would be a snack for such a talented welder as yourself?

    And you're fitting a 306 in this one anyhow aren't you? Is it going to be the first front wheel drive 203?
    Maybe I could fit my dead 406 into this one? The front crossmember looks vaguely negotiable.

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