407 hdi particle filter
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon13 407 hdi particle filter

    Hi All,
    Posted a question whether anyone had been having issues with this item on 407 sedan - 2007 model only used for short trips. Other forums indicate lots of people have the problem on EU countries. Has anyone toyed with the idea of removing this filter????
    The filter seems like a good idea which is not all that practical???

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! jurgen_s's Avatar
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    I wouldn't dare to say a lot of problems, but some manufactures had some issues with their filters due to short distances. It seems that peugeot and CitroŽn escaped a lot of those problems but some had issues to. I drive my 607 now for 2 years almost only on short distances (but once a week it is a long one) and I had no problems whatsoever.
    Why remove it? You will need already somebody who can do it electronically because removing it like that will cause a lot of errors.
    As long as you drive a long distance (+ 50 km's) from time to time you will hardly notice it is there. At 180.000 it will need to be replaced, normally because I've seen already a lot of other ones that still drive with the original filter at +200.000km's. Again, a lot depends on how you drive your car. If you don't push it from time to time to get the exhaust heated up, you may risk earlier replacement if you do the maintenance at your dealer. In Europe we have the luck that some other companies jumped into the market and offer now relatively low cost replacement filters (300 Ä's instead of 1500Ä's). Perhaps it is the same in Australia.
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  3. #3
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    Icon14 407 particle filter

    Thanks for your response jurgen_s re this issue. I have the vehicle booked in to the local peugeot dealer tomorrow 27/4 so we will see what they say. I am having a battle with peugeot australia regarding who pays as I brought this to their attention before the warranty expired on 18.10.2010. We purchased car at 23000 kms in march 2010 and it has now done 36000 kms. Short trips but at least once a week for approx. 60 kms at 100 kmh / hr speed but particle filter warning light keeps coming on. Previous owner obvously didn't use the car much clocking 23000 in 2 years. Maybe the problem existed before we purchased it??
    Will let you know result. Thanks again. Glen.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! jurgen_s's Avatar
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    they should do a forced regeneration of the filter

    it takes about 10 minutes to do so and they don't have to stand next to the car all the time.

    With the forced regen they heat up the engine really hard to get the exhaust temperature high enough to get a spontaneous combustion of the particles in the filter. If that doesn't do the job, have them remove the filter and clean it out with high pressure water on both sides. Dry it and let them do again a forced regen.
    That under the assumption that the filter is clogged up, but it could be seen with the diagnostic computer due the to differential pressure sensor in the filter. Might be that the sensor is faulty and they need to change that.
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  5. #5
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    I, on the other hand have removed the DPF from my 607. It's a 2.2 HDI auto. I also blanked off the EGR.
    My fuel economy has gone from 29 mpg (UK) to about 36 mpg which is a huge difference.

  6. #6
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    Hi Jurgen,
    The dealer did a regen.on the filter on Thurs. 28/4 and the car is running great again but I am wondering for how long as this is the second dealer regen. in 6000 kms. A fellow peugeot owner in south australia replied that the 307 was having this problem also and that sometimes the regen which is supposed to occur on a long run doesn't clear the fault codes so warning light keeps re appearing.Time to buy a petrol version again I think.

  7. #7
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    Hi dieselnutjob,
    The dealer did a regen on the filter Thurs.28/4 and the car is running great but for how long as this is the second regen.done in 6000 kms. another owner indicated 307 may be suffering same problem also.I would be interested to know how to dissappear this filter and make a nice car more user friendly. I guess a lot of drivers in UK have had similar problems with short distance driving. Not everyone lives where they drive over 100km in one journey to clear this filter out.Did you have to re program ecu after filter removal. Hope someone in my state of victoria in australia can do it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenl1953 View Post
    Hi All,
    Posted a question whether anyone had been having issues with this item on 407 sedan - 2007 model only used for short trips. Other forums indicate lots of people have the problem on EU countries. Has anyone toyed with the idea of removing this filter????
    The filter seems like a good idea which is not all that practical???
    I suspect that some of these "particle filter" issues may be arising due the use of an incorrect oil in the engine.

    Since the addition of a particulate filter to modern diesel engines, the oil specification for these engines must be complied with. Peugeot specify a TOTAL oil grade (see the label under the bonnet), but in the early stages, due to the scarcity of TOTAL Oil outlets, many dealers just used a common diesel oil.

    I resolved this issue by using a PENRITE oil which met all the particulate filter requirements (Penrite HPR 0 which is now PENRITE ENVIRO+). TOTAL Oil is now available via many distributors & many Peugeot dealers seem to now use that in their servicing.

    I agree that continual short trips may not help, but in many years of our 307 operation, which sees a mixture of long & short trips, we have not had any particulate filter issues.

    Cheers,
    K

  9. #9
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    Default 407 Particle Filter

    Hi Kimdeb,
    Thanks for the reply. We have been using a synthetic oil for changes all done by local stealer er dealer.
    I have been researching this issue most of today and it seems that a lot of different makes / owners are having issues with this filter - vw - subaru - mercedes - etc. although mostly in UK. I am going to explore the removal of this filter with a local diesel european car expert. Hope he performs this or its a petrol model again.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! jurgen_s's Avatar
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    the filter used by psa has nothing to do with the filters used by other manufactures

    PSA is the only one that uses a liquid that helps cleaning out the filter. It does it job very good compared to the other ones that are far more sensitive to shorter trips. If I were you I would leave it just there where it should be.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenl1953 View Post
    Hi Kimdeb,
    Thanks for the reply. We have been using a synthetic oil for changes all done by local stealer er dealer.
    I have been researching this issue most of today and it seems that a lot of different makes / owners are having issues with this filter - vw - subaru - mercedes - etc. although mostly in UK. I am going to explore the removal of this filter with a local diesel european car expert. Hope he performs this or its a petrol model again.
    The use of just a synthetic oil is not the only criteria required for a suitable oil for particulate filters. It may be a synthetic oil but it must also meet the correct chemical composition that these diesel engines require (such as Penrite Enviro+ or the Total oil specification).

    I also would not be having the particulate filter removed. Apart from this being contrary to Australian & European emission standards, I think you will have engine management software issues.

    Good Luck,

    Cheers,
    K

  12. #12
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    Default you gotta get out on the road!

    As I have been reding this thread, I am wondering how it is that so many people don't get their pugs out on the open road. The 407 is a tad maligned by some on this forum, its not like the old pugs etc, and I've had a few pugs, and they have got a point. In town, they are definitely firmer, but on the open road, they absolutely shine! Surely there is some where nice you can visit that is only 100 clicks from where you live? The 407 is cruise master! I have done 100,000 in mine over the past 3 years, and its best days are the highway. The regen will do its thing, and you'll have a great time enjoying the drive.
    Andrew

  13. #13
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    I live in the Barossa Valley in SA, so I'm already at that nice place to visit
    Having said that, we regularly drive back to Adelaide to visit family and friends, so we haven't seen any problems with the particulate filter in our 307 HDi.
    It's only been once or twice that I've noticed the regen being done in ours, it's something you don't really notice. You see the temperature of the car rise a little and that's about it.

  14. #14
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    My 607 is a 2001 model and there was no legal requirement back in 2001 to have a particulate filter or even EGR in Europe. Also it is not against UK law to alter the emissions of your vehicle provided that it passes the annual emissions test which mine does, so I have broken no law.

    I did need to modify the ECU to not use the particulate filter.

    In my case the problem is mileage. For the 607 Peugeot state that the particulate filter should be changed every 50,000 miles which means I would have to buy a new one every two years which is just ridiculous. In practise I was actually forced to do something at 80,000 miles as it was regenerating every 200km and causing power and economy issues.

    Ten years ago Peugeot introduced the worlds first car with a particulate filter as a marketing exercise because at that time people were worried about particulate emissions and associated health concerns. Ten years on things have changed and global warming is the big issue so it makes sense to me to use as little fuel as possible. The HDI is a pretty clean engine anyway and produces very little particulate emissions compared with other ten year old diesels.

    I don't know anything about Australian law so I can't advise.

  15. #15
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    Hi All - Well we don't sem to be having any more warning lights since regen on 27/4. No short trips though - we use the old 505 petrol for those.Maybe we have discovered the secret to this car. Thanks everyone for your input. Glen.

  16. #16
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    New to the site / forum but not to Peugeot. I am on my 9th Peugeot and its a 207 SW HDi and we are very pleased with it.

    I would say that having the correct and fresh oil is the right way to go but after owning the third Hdi Fap car and from experience [ UK and here in Oz ], be very careful that the oil level is not over the maximum mark.

    I just had my hdi back from a 40,000 km service at a Peugeot dealer [ usless would be too kind a word ] and every fluid and oil level was way over the max mark. What happens in this case is that there is more oil being chucked up through the CCV pipe back into the intake which clogs the Fap filter, not to mention potential damage to the engine if not spotted early. I took it back to the stealer and they drained and replaced the oil, and as per my instruction under the max mark. All ok now. This can also happen if you use too much throttle when the engine / oil is cold.

    After the warranty has expired I will be servicing and looking after this car myself as I have done with my previous Peugeot's that have never missed a beat.

    Doing short trips and not letting the engine rev higher for a longer period does not help either.

    As others have suggested its good to go for a longer run every now and then and "Blow Out The Tubes". I take mine out for a run every weekend where I keep the rpm above 3000 for about 5 minutes, only with the engine properly warmed up...

    Lastly avoid cheap Diesel. I mainly use BP Ultimate. I have never had issues with the Fap filter. Most of the later model Fap filters are designed to last around 180,000 KM and the additive should last around 100,000 km. Regeneration happens every 400-500km for around 2-3 minutes. A way of telling when its happening is the water temperature is slightly above the 90 mark [ the fan engages in high speed mode ] whereas its normally around 80. The exhaust note will also sound different.

    Its great to own and drive a Diesel that does not smoke even under hard acceleration.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! 908HDI's Avatar
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    New to the site / forum but not to Peugeot. I am on my 9th Peugeot and its a 207 SW HDi and we are very pleased with it.

    I would say that having the correct and fresh oil is the right way to go but after owning the third Hdi Fap car and from experience [ UK and here in Oz ], be very careful that the oil level is not over the maximum mark.

    I just had my hdi back from a 40,000 km service at a Peugeot dealer [ usless would be too kind a word ] and every fluid and oil level was way over the max mark. What happens in this case is that there is more oil being chucked up through the CCV pipe back into the intake which clogs the Fap filter, not to mention potential damage to the engine if not spotted early. I took it back to the stealer and they drained and replaced the oil, and as per my instruction under the max mark. All ok now. This can also happen if you use too much throttle when the engine / oil is cold.

    After the warranty has expired I will be servicing and looking after this car myself as I have done with my previous Peugeot's that have never missed a beat.

    Doing short trips and not letting the engine rev higher for a longer period does not help either.

    As others have suggested its good to go for a longer run every now and then and "Blow Out The Tubes". I take mine out for a run every weekend where I keep the rpm above 3000 for about 5 minutes, only with the engine properly warmed up...

    Lastly avoid cheap Diesel. I mainly use BP Ultimate. I have never had issues with the Fap filter. Most of the later model Fap filters are designed to last around 180,000 KM and the additive should last around 100,000 km. Regeneration happens every 400-500km for around 2-3 minutes. A way of telling when its happening is the water temperature is slightly above the 90 mark [ the fan engages in high speed mode ] whereas its normally around 80. The exhaust note will also sound different.

    Its great to own and drive a Diesel that does not smoke even under hard acceleration.

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