205 Oz Frog members have changed over the years
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 35
  1. #1
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    2,899

    Default 205 Oz Frog members have changed over the years

    I have been in the 205 scene now for 20 years and now and again at car meets or French Car Days the conversation often crops up about how the comraderie of 205 owners has been changing over the years.
    I never really agreed with it totally however a recent event has me thinking that maybe it has.......

    Oz Frog Seller: I have a wreck for sale with the following XXX parts already taken . You can have the wreck for $X.

    Oz Frog Buyer: OK, done deal. Consider it purchased as is for the $x requested.

    Oz Frog Seller: Done deal. its yours [then discusses delivery etc ]

    The following day further parts are sold from the car. The next day the buyers close 205 friends PM him to say even more parts have been sold from the said vehicle [as they had purchased them ]

    Oz Frog Buyer: I thought we had a deal and it was sold?
    Oz Frog Seller: I'm trying to recoup some of my dollars from the initial purchase of the car!!!

    On hearing of the above scenario i am now starting to think those car meet chats may have a point LOL
    What do other 205 members think of the above?

    Advertisement
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    1,496

    Default

    While I am a 205 owner, I think this issue is more general then just 205's.

    It's funny that on the other forums I read (turbo 124 and AROCA) people are a lot more up front and do what they say they are going to do rather then saying one thing and doing another.

    Another thing I notice is that other forums don't try and turn threads into pissing contests either....
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  3. #3
    1000+ Posts djvu205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    3550
    Posts
    1,402

    Default ethics

    doesnt sound to good, but unfortunatley it does happen. i always try and buy things there and then, in person, rather than online or over phone etc. however with the internet these days its not always possible. You do get the odd Rogue, but there is still some honest people out there too.

    something i have also seen alot is parts swapping. if you are going to buy something dont leave it laying around for too long or all the good bits get replaced.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,382

    Default

    I think that the change is in part due to the nature of an open forum. It's impersonal and attracts all types of people rather than a car club for example, where members have a common interest in the cars and helping each other with their cars. Yes you can do this on a forum but it takes time to form the associations with people you feel are genuine.

    However this is no excuse for poor ethics as per your example.But even in car clubs there will always be someone whose principles are different to the majority and in time, like in your example, they will always be found out.....

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    350

    Default

    John,

    it has long been an adage in the motor racing community, that, if you are going to buy the championship winning car, for which you will pay top dollar obviously, with a view to winning next year's championship, you take delivery immediately after it has just won a race, probably the last race of the season. The reason for this is obvious.

    The 205 community gets younger every year. This is entirely natural. Unfortunately, a great deal of gormlessness comes with it. When we were developing these things, we worked it all out for ourselves, the hard way. Now, the grasshoppers just want us to "share the knowledge". As if! Any knowledge a competitive racer shares will be disinformation, trust me.

    The situation you describe has nothing to do with any of this. It is simply dishonesty. I'm tempted to suggest it's a "Gen Y" thing, but, if there is any truth in that, they obviously learnt it from watching their elders. Imagine growing up with the example of Nixon, rather than Roosevelt?

    Tim

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    2,899

    Default

    Well said Tim.


    Also on another thing...."The 205 community gets younger every year. This is entirely natural"
    How do they do that? Everytime i look in the mirror ive actually got older !!
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hiding in a bush somewhere in ENGLAND
    Posts
    5,312

    Default It isn't the car, it's the person...

    203 owners are just the same.

    Three or four years ago I spent a pleasant weekend in the company of a 203 owner and his wife and friends, during which I said he could have my engine as I no longer had a use for it. In return, I was to borrow his 203 for a weekend, to see what a "proper" 203 is like to drive.

    When I returned home, I learned from my kids that the 203 owner had sent a couple of his pals to collect my engine, and they took the gearbox at the same time. No biggie, I didn't have any use for that either, but a bit cheeky all the same.

    I phone the guy up to call-in the favour, and he denies ever meeting me, has never heard of me, and where the Hell did I get his 'phone number(s)?

    And he seemed such a decent bloke. It's a good job I don't swear.



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    anywhere
    Posts
    2,010

    Default

    Funny thing a 203 not a million miles from here runs on a 403 engine I supplied but the owner denies any agreement I was to be paid for it. I'm obviously more generous than I thought. Dealing in cars seems to bring out the worst in some people. It's much the same with horses.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    Also on another thing...."The 205 community gets younger every year. This is entirely natural"
    How do they do that? Everytime i look in the mirror ive actually got older !!
    Yeah, yeah, I realised that as I wrote it, but couldn't be bothered to rephrase it as "the average age of the 205 community". Obviously, as we get older, we increase the average, but the youngsters coming it at a great rate, as the cars are now cheap to buy, bring the average down.

    So, Mike, that is the effect you have on people? They seemed nice enough to you, but how did you seem to them? Perhaps he felt that an engine and gearbox were little enough compensation for an afternoon of torture? Don't thank me for this insight - it's just in my nature to be helpful where I can.

    Tim

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hiding in a bush somewhere in ENGLAND
    Posts
    5,312

    Default

    All I can say is...

    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet View Post
    And he seemed such a decent bloke. It's a good job I don't swear.



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hiding in a bush somewhere in ENGLAND
    Posts
    5,312

    Default

    I'd imagine the same sort of thing through all the numbers, be it 205, 405, 605,....
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    203

    Default Us oldies also have much better music collections

    Howdy Swain,
    I was chatting to Fangbosun about the Millennial Generation just last night. He is pretty reticent and non pulsed by this as this is how it goes these days it seems ( he has a collection of parts like you and was looking to help the guy out with use of his facilities ). The core values you had drummed into you in the Senior Service are not of this new generation. Heck when I left they had to make it a mantra and mission statement so the Y’s could see the billboards on base when they came to work. The fact they thought they ‘clocked off’ was part of the problem. Wear a triservice uniform and you don’t bundy off till you demob. The ‘branding’ didn’t work mind you and according to the media it’s the hierarchy’s fault the kids have low value sets – cripes look at ADFA.

    I hear this a lot from folks in their 40s and 50s - complaining about Generation Y that is. Their gormlessness’, fickleness, their sense of entitlement, their impatience at waiting for anything. Whilst I agree with Tim to an extent that X & Y’s just expect wisdom and knowledge to be passed down for free for their consumption, perhaps this chap might now find it harder to have others ‘share the knowledge’. Sadly I disagree that this is an aberration but an example of the Y gen’s – it’s becoming mainstream IMHO. I for one tread carefully with young un’s – Honesty Loyalty Integrity & Courage are just buzzwords, I only hope as they mature they come to understand what the words mean and why they are important. Please forgive me if I don’t hold my breath.

    Oh Tim, BTW I was a child of the Nixon era smack bang between the Boomer and the X ( hell am I confused ) I disagree that the trend to fickleness started then. Fast forward to Y’s 78 – 94, this is a generation hammered by the vacuous hype of modern media. Whilst Y’s want to be understood, respected and most of all, included, they have a problem. Y’s often fail to grasp that because they keep loyalty, honesty and integrity for their immediate peers ( where they garner their self esteem ) they find it hard to get it from their elders. Their wish for a happy relationship and a loving family will sadly elude them.

    Core values of the Boomber that were dominant included a strong work ethic, respect for authority and commitment, delayed gratifaication and long term goals. The values today are totally different so old farts like us have to try to understand what drives Y’s and fit in with that when interacting with them. Don’t let this incident burn you up, that’s what they are so as they say ‘deal with it’ – this one probably didn’t consider that what he was doing was bad. The values we hold aren’t theirs and it probably didn’t strike him that the community he was looking to be part of need those values to be upheld to function effectively.

    The way I see it JR if you wanted it then the only guarantee was to show up with the cash and a trailer on his doorstep. By playing on this Y’s self esteem to be respected at his word it would be in your yard right now. I suspect he found he had another set of loyalties he chose to roll with, to the detriment of his reputation. As we old buggers know it’s easy to lose your reputation and bloody hard to get it back.

    Did you go to the dawn service this morning?
    93' 205GTi
    'don't force it son - use a bigger hammer'

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sandgroper View Post
    The way I see it JR if you wanted it then the only guarantee was to show up with the cash and a trailer on his doorstep.
    Agree.

    You need to have a "NOW' attitude, especially with a wreck.
    The "we didn't do that in the old days is total BS. I know more old scammers than young ones.
    You have assumed the seller has the same ethics as you.... Big mistake and trans-generational.
    Wait untill you clash with other cultures' way of doing business.
    Again, one way is not necessarily correct, but the clash comes in the difference.

    I dont assume these days, and as a result dont accept deposits, expresions of interest or any other tyre kicker BS.
    If you want it, come and give me full payment and take it with you.

    I sold mums car last year and a family friend compounded the sale by saying on the day of sale that they would buy it for sure, but not untill they cleared it with their husband at 1pm. I reluctantly agreed to hold the sale.
    At 12pm a guy turned up unannounced with close enough to the full amount and I sold it to him.

    Why??

    Not because I have no honour, but because the family friend forgot the primary rule of buying, Do it NOW. If anything, I was pissed off with them for putting me in an awkward position.
    They learned a valuable lesson that day, as I suspect has been learned from this 205 saga.
    If you want it, buy it now and take it home now.


    Jo

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    2,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Agree.

    You need to have a "NOW' attitude, especially with a wreck.
    The "we didn't do that in the old days is total BS. I know more old scammers than young ones.
    You have assumed the seller has the same ethics as you.... Big mistake and trans-generational.
    Wait untill you clash with other cultures' way of doing business.
    Again, one way is not necessarily correct, but the clash comes in the difference.

    I dont assume these days, and as a result dont accept deposits, expresions of interest or any other tyre kicker BS.
    If you want it, come and give me full payment and take it with you.

    I sold mums car last year and a family friend compounded the sale by saying on the day of sale that they would buy it for sure, but not untill they cleared it with their husband at 1pm. I reluctantly agreed to hold the sale.
    At 12pm a guy turned up unannounced with close enough to the full amount and I sold it to him.

    Why??

    Not because I have no honour, but because the family friend forgot the primary rule of buying, Do it NOW. If anything, I was pissed off with them for putting me in an awkward position.
    They learned a valuable lesson that day, as I suspect has been learned from this 205 saga.
    If you want it, buy it now and take it home now.


    Jo

    Thats all well and good Jo....however the seller said to give him 3-4 days so he could remove the list of parts from it [the list was supplied ]
    Which to the buyer sounded fair and reasonable.
    However in those 3-4 days duration the seller continues to sell others parts from it. It is not about genx, y or z....its about pure good manners and scruples IMHO whichever generation he comes from.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    2,899

    Default

    Did you go to the dawn service this morning?[/QUOTE]


    No m8.....too young for that sort of stuff

    My Father [a bushie from wayback ]always said " the more people i meet....the more i like my dog "
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    Which to the buyer sounded fair and reasonable.
    It is not about genx, y or z....its about pure good manners and scruples IMHO whichever generation he comes from.
    I guess you add that person to you real life 'ignore list' and continue your life journey with another little dent in the armour, looking for people who share your model for doing things.
    Like i suggested, its not their ethics that are the issue as such, its the difference between their ethics and yours that causes problems.
    Same as when a western business tries to trade with the east. Its not that one system is better or more right, its just that the difference is the ugly bit.

    I come accros people with different ethics from time to time.
    They dont usually get given a second go.
    There is the guy I gave heaps of free parts and time to, only to see my free parts on ebay some time later. Thats rude.
    I have to say on the whole though, I have found aussie froggers to be very honourable, and the couple of incidents I have had that left a sour taste have been with the older set who I expected more of.
    Again I think the issue was not their ethics, as they can do what they want, its the difference between what I expected and what actually happened, so again it comes back to me.
    A cynical way of looking at is if you lower your expectations of people, you dont set yourself up for disappointment.
    I need to continually exercise that ethic with my sometimes slack friends.
    There have been a few solo boat trips as I leave the jetty on time, turn my mobile off and eat all the sandwitches myself .

    Jo

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bondi
    Posts
    3,370

    Default

    The reason we ( other generations besides older ones) want to know 'now' about 'stuff' is because that whats happening 'now' ( or anytime...theme?).

    Think about when you were 20 or so and wanted to know something that older people knew. ( whatever it may have been ) How annoying was it when they didnt tell you just to make themselves feel better about knowing something or keeping something form someone younger just to get them to 'do' some of their own 'hard work'.

    What if it were a place where those stupid pathetic values that dont help people move on faster, or forward were thrown out the window and the attitude were different, maybe we ( younger ) wouldnt need to make life hard for the 'lot' that want to teach by showing and antagonising how they know more or wonder why we do 'strange things' to our cars..etc

    Best way in life to teach people is to help them, give them an edge. Like any relationship, wether it be your wife mate or whoever. Give a little get a little, give a lot get alot. If the older generations just keep trying to 'teach' youngsters by making life hard for them for their own satisfaction then its a real pitty. Sure, your own hard work is normally very satisfying but dont deny people knowledge just because...

    I learn more from my mates 20month old boy than from my 36 yr old boss at work. The boy dosent hold grudges, he dosent play by a certain 'set' of rules nor does he regret what happens. Hes for the now and thats it. Does his dad do everything for him? No, he may show him once, then lets him work it out with guidance and advice when called apon. No just, oh, do it all yourself, Ive already done that and your gunna learn the same way!

    Ive been SO lucky in the car world ( 205 world ) meeting people like Owen and Adrian W and PeterT who are always happy to share knowledge to just about anyone. Humble persons who have done the hard work but dont hold it from others just because. They did the hard work and dont want it to be so hard for others if they can help it. Especially if its for the sake of sharing something they are passionate about.

    If developing a race car and then holding all information from anyone wanting to know something just because you though of it or did the hard work to find it out, then good luck being a person who is lonley and only willing to imput to 'proven hard workers' or to a certain age bracket or knowledge count. Dont believe that to be very useful or enlightening.


    OK rant over. Not completely sure it makes great sense. Not ment to offend anyone either, just my view ( through my window )
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    803

    Default

    That's just not cricket. I suggest a good old gearboxing JR (happy so supply a be3 and a rb20gearbox for the cause.)

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=gearboxing
    2006 Peugeot 206 Xt
    1991 Toyota mx83 grande 1jzgte

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    350

    Default

    [QUOTE=cam85;947513]
    Think about when you were 20 or so and wanted to know something that older people knew. ( whatever it may have been ) How annoying was it when they didnt tell you just to make themselves feel better about knowing something or keeping something form someone younger just to get them to 'do' some of their own 'hard work'.[QUOTE]

    Cam,

    this is your own interpretation of what is happening when somebody doesn't tell you what you either wnt to, or already ought to, know. It certainly doesn't accord with mine. Don't you think you are being a little bit precious? Feeling a little bit entitled? Have you done anything to earn that knowledge, other than ask nicely? Or not?

    Ive been SO lucky in the car world ( 205 world ) meeting people like Owen and Adrian W and PeterT who are always happy to share knowledge to just about anyone.
    Cam, you misrepresent the facts here. You paid these people to build you a car, which you wrote off within 24 hrs of delivery, thus losing any credibility you may have had. If you are going to tell us how it feels for you, please tell it truthfully.

    Tim

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    8,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcusack View Post
    Cam, you misrepresent the facts here. You paid these people to build you a car, which you wrote off within 24 hrs of delivery, thus losing any credibility you may have had.

    Tim

    I dont know about the full loss of credibility, Tim.
    Maybe as a driver, Ok no credibility left..... But there is something I like and admire about anyone who can pull that stunt off (like I admire the brawn of a streaker at the cricket), so some credit is due.

    Jo

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcusack View Post
    Cam, you misrepresent the facts here. You paid these people to build you a car, which you wrote off within 24 hrs of delivery, thus losing any credibility you may have had. If you are going to tell us how it feels for you, please tell it truthfully.


    Sick burn.
    2006 Peugeot 206 Xt
    1991 Toyota mx83 grande 1jzgte

  22. #22
    al
    al is offline
    1000+ Posts al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Ive been SO lucky in the car world ( 205 world ) meeting people like Owen and Adrian W and PeterT who are always happy to share knowledge to just about anyone. Humble persons who have done the hard work but dont hold it from others just because. They did the hard work and dont want it to be so hard for others if they can help it. Especially if its for the sake of sharing something they are passionate about.
    What good is knowledge if you can't withhold it to make yourself look better?

    Peter is doing it all wrong. Clearly he would be better off making constant smart arsed digs at people and reminding them how clever he is?
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
    505 GTi

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bondi
    Posts
    3,370

    Default

    Tim, lets get the facts straight if we must first.
    I was T Boned by another car. Thats why it was written off. I was travelling at about 35kmh. Did you see the car after? Im not going to publicly publicise what happened to the car and parts of that car before or after that. Do you know? ( not that it actually matters ) I cut my losses and moved on and hold no grudges, theres no point.

    Second, were you there during the build at any time? Do you have any idea the type of relationship any of the named parties have with me? Probably not.

    All I was trying to say in my post is precisely the point you missed.

    Earn knowledge? What do you mean. Im not entitled to know something someone else is because of what reason? They spent some time researching it? You wouldnt not have researched it if you didnt like doing it. So why not share what you have discovered? ( unless your living off it ) I was and am able to call many car 'gurus' ( if we must ) and they have always been happy to talk about anything 205 related with me. Maybe because I was very young and interested it made a difference. Or maybe they just like sharing their knowledge they have with people to help them out.

    All I was trying to say in relation to an earlier post ( which funny enough is not related to this argument ) is that so many people feel they have a right to hold information just because they have done the hard work. Sure, all props to you ( who ever you may be ) but surely a better approach would be to help, other than to make life difficult...

    Back on topic
    JR, I too have found and can be guilty of both sides of your initial statement. Its definitely not just 205s, but there has been a lot of activity lately with parts going here and there with the 205 community...

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bondi
    Posts
    3,370

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by al View Post
    What good is knowledge if you can't withhold it to make yourself look better?

    Peter is doing it all wrong. Clearly he would be better off making constant smart arsed digs at people and reminding them how clever he is?
    Sorry Al, don't follow....
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    203

    Default Why Are We Here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Agree.

    You need to have a "NOW' attitude, especially with a wreck.
    The "we didn't do that in the old days is total BS. I know more old scammers than young ones.
    You have assumed the seller has the same ethics as you.... Big mistake and trans-generational.
    Wait untill you clash with other cultures' way of doing business.
    Again, one way is not necessarily correct, but the clash comes in the difference.


    Jo
    Hi Jo
    Having dealt with providores in SE Asia for 20 years I know all too well your point of dealing with other cultures, very well if fact. Business is business. Lets not start on how in China the family IS the state etc - fundamental of why Westerners don’t get it. I guess I failed to enunciate my point effectively. Sure there are old scammers in greater numbers (I wholeheartedly agree on that one) -because they have had far more practice I suspect. Whilst these are all vague generalisations about generations and cultures there are clear baselines that mark each no doubt. What will it be like in another 20years when the baseline comes from a “lower value” set or is that just a different set. Now that’s something to think about. Will there be more scammers then than there is now with the ‘different’ set of values in the Y Gen’s – that is an interesting topic and we’ll probably get all mushy about glass ½ full/empty $h!t if we go down that road.

    I guess that the point I was trying to make is that this guy comes from a different set of values (as you said ) that his life experience impressed on him and he didn’t put much thought into what backing out of an verbal contract would mean to someone else. JR hadn’t paid for it and it was this other blokes car to do as he saw fit so he wasn't scamming anyone in his mind I suggest. Could he have handled it better – without doubt – perhaps they could have done the deal in full view rather than PM’s with I suspect a different result. Intentionally evil – not so sure about that.

    From my perspective I see that what the phrase ‘a man’s word’ once stood for is now a rare commodity one that only works if you have a working knowledge of that person you are dealing with. If you don’t know them well enough then a verbal contract is not worth much.

    Cam,
    I hear clearly what you are sayin’ but there is a view that the ‘demand’ to know the answer just because some pimply kid who has mastered the art of breathing asked lacks the respect that old and young alike desire ( don’t take offence as I’m not calling you a pimply kid Cam ).To illustrate what I mean I relate an experience of a dear friend who was training to be a surveyor many moons ago. His ‘teacher’ made him wade thru countless geometry and trig and made him write out the method in journals using his old theodolite. Adam couldn’t understand why the old fart wanted him to go through all this rubbish as the new equipment does it all for you via GPS. Adam just wanted the ‘answer’ he didn’t care for how or why he just wanted it ‘now’. The old fart just kept sayin ‘what do you do when there are no batteries’. After he grasped how and why the old bugger let him loose on the newer gear but Adam was so pissed off that when he finished his studies he joined the Navy as a Seaman Officer as he wanted something different – hated that too. Adam is now a civy again working in NW WA as a surveyor who is excellent at what he does and is paid accordingly (lots). He gets it now, the old bastard was putting the theory of ‘how & why’ in his head to develop a spatial awareness from a 2 dimensional page of numbers. I’ve watched him work and it’s scary it’s like he can see a fourth dimension by looking at a sheet of paper full of ( what appears to me are ) random numbers. None of his peers/contempories have his abilities and I think I know why. Adam has recounted this story to Gen Y’s in my presence ( drinking my beer ) during our time in Bahrain. Point is just because you don’t get the answer at the drop of a hat don’t think the old fart is giving you a hard time. In your defence though I have seen some insecure Bosses that are afraid and keep the knowledge for themselves in the vain hope they can keep their jobs. Wrong!! Don’t work for tossers like these – move on (or over the top of them ) at the first available opportunity.

    Swain ,
    Dolphin code 90.
    You need to get out more matelot. Spent the morning with a Vietnam Vet and his buddies up Tim’s way, as a Gulf War 1 & 2 Vet there is a huge gap in our different cultures. They put up with a ton of $h!t that puts this thread into perspective. I enjoy the time with them though, makes me realise the more I think know the less I actually know. The phrase “need a new idea - read an old book’ comes to mind. Much to be gained by looking back as you are “moving forward” ( damn I despise that term and the red head that constantly uses it ). Last word from me on this is not mine but from a true lady on another forum I frequent where a far bigger ill had come to pass. It seems apt and I hope Bernice doesn’t mind me copying her sage advice here on this side of the trench.

    Why Are We Here ?

    For many, it is the X1/9 in their life or curiosity about the X1/9 that brings individuals to this place on the web.

    When individuals are brought together by a common interest, each individual brings their whole-self to this place and they also bring their personalities here too which results in a relationship.

    As in any relationship in life, they can vary to many extremes, from excellent supportive to abusive and awful.

    Ask yourself if what is being posted is respectful, trustworthy and will help the individual in need.

    Trust and Respect are two basic aspect of any relationship, if these two basic tenants of any relationship are not met, it usually result in bad things.

    X web is not a turf battle ground based on who knows more, who has be "better" car, more this or that.. This is not a race track where winner takes all. Xweb is a community that is meant to support owners and individuals who have an interest in the X1/9.

    Know there is a human being behind the words posted, and word have meaning. Ask yourself if this is the words posted are the words that you would want to hear. Basically, put yourself at the other ends of the words.

    Even more simply put, do you have compassion for all readers in what you write. Are the words honest and not driven by greed or a hidden agenda.

    The folks who have created and supported this place on the web has made it possible for all who have various degrees of interest in the X1/9 a place to share. Just like the earth we all live in, we need to respect and share it. Abuse it and it might be gone.

    Time to move on and let what every happened go.
    B


    Yours Aye

    Sandgroper
    93' 205GTi
    'don't force it son - use a bigger hammer'

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •